[DUG] Multi client website

Wed Aug 3 05:05:47 NZST 2016

Hi Leigh,

>>Your suggestion usd3 per month is really share hosting with thousands of server on the same box, right? I guess windows iis server will not be very happy about that. I think linux server is very happy about that.

If you go with GoDaddy then yes, you probably end up sharing an overloaded box with thousands of others … with discountasp I never really had much performance issues for a normal website (like I said, “you get what you pay for”).  

>>I think that you really don't want to share with others for the same machine on windows server asp.net mvc.

Two interesting links from what others are doing are https://plentyoffish.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/aspnet-and-iis-2-million-pageviews-per-hour/ and http://highscalability.com/stack-overflow-architecture ... Both of them are very old links. Not saying IIS is the best webserver out there – every server does have its particular strengths and weaknesses. But anyone who thinks the windows stack doesn’t scale is just kidding themselves .. especially in regards to dynamic created content ( not talking about the many artificial benchmarks that just test how many requests a server can handle for pushing through 100 bytes of static content). 

>>There is a huge difference between paying usd3 per month vs colocation a high end server cost aud30k paying monthly fee 5k aud. I am doing asp.net mvc development on the latter one. :-)

Of course ;-) - That sounds like a beast you have there. Blade server or just a very highly spec’d one? … I don’t know the architecture of your setup and what traffic you handle (I’d love to hear from you if you want to email me private). I assume the 5k AUD you quoted for colo pays for much more than just hosting your beast (most of it is traffic cost, right?) .. if not you might want to check out the colo offers section on www.webhostingtalk.com. I think 5k AUD would pay for quite a few dedicated servers if your architecture allows it (scale out vs scale up … to have redundancy) … but that’s just speculation from my side, I am sure your biz has good reasons to choose colo rather than managed dedicated servers (sensitive data / PCI DSS?).

Kind regards,

Stefan Müller,
R&D Manager

ORCL Toolbox Ltd. 
Auckland, New Zealand 

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From: delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz] On Behalf Of Leigh Wanstead
Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2016 9:45 a.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Multi client website

Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your reply.

Your suggestion usd3 per month is really share hosting with thousands of server on the same box, right? I guess windows iis server will not be very happy about that. I think linux server is very happy about that.

I think that you really don't want to share with others for the same machine on windows server asp.net mvc.

There is a huge difference between paying usd3 per month vs colocation a high end server cost aud30k paying monthly fee 5k aud. I am doing asp.net mvc development on the latter one. :-)

You are right amazon aws ec2 free server is a free trial for a year. But that means amazon give you resource for 365 days using for free. :-) If your web service can last that long, you already save some money compare to paying some commercial service without knowing if the project can survive.

Regards

Leigh

On 1 August 2016 at 19:20, Stefan Mueller <muellers at orcl-toolbox.com> wrote:

Leigh,

>>To use asp.net mvc involves a cost which requires a windows server and iis. Windows server cost license fee.

Plenty of hosting providers that offer asp.net support …. Godaddy does it for $3.99 USD a month https://sg.godaddy.com/hosting/windows-hosting … and even my favorite http://www.discountasp.net only costs $10 USD a month (you get what you pay). In my opinion especially if you do a commercial project then the cost of hosting nowadays is peanuts (by the time you outgrow shared and move to dedicated it’s still only a tiny part of your opex). It’s true that you can find cheaper linux hosting, but then in my opinion the whole development cycle and costs to create and maintain a complex datadriven website is just hands down easier to do in ASP.Net (due to framework and the fact that c# is a strong typed language) than PHP. I guess the real question is how complex is John’s website? Maybe PHP will do .. maybe ASP.Net is better, hard to tell without knowing exactly what he is up to. 

>>You suggested to jump the ship from delphi to c#

I don’t know of many developers that actually run Delphi on Linux .. so most likely you still need a window server, one that supports ISAPI for IntraWeb .. your choices of hosting providers will be severely limited. Plus not to mention the costs of finding people that can actually maintain this later on .. I’ve done a few projects and learnt quite a bit from them: picking the right framework and tech is important to long term success .. you don’t want to end up in a situation where a few years later on you will have to rewrite your whole app and write off months of wasted development time just because you went down the wrong road and are stuck now with its shortcomings that slow you down and a tiny community that makes it hard to get support and questions answered.

>>It is very slow to use asp.net mvc using amazon aws free server. It is very fast to do ubuntu linux on amazon aws ec2 free server to do web hosting. 

There are plenty of benchmarks that prove that asp.net mvc is a lot faster than php (http://www.miyconst.com/Blog/View/1049/asp-net-mvc-vs-php-yii-performance-comparison is interesting to read, not just because of the benchmark). AWS free isn’t really free – it’s just a one year “starter” offer that is intended for developers to try out AWS features – it is not for production servers. Sorry, no offense, but I start getting the feeling you are Scottish – not to say being frugal is a bad thing (not at all) ;-) ! 

Kind regards,

Stefan Müller,
R&D Manager

ORCL Toolbox Ltd. 
Auckland, New Zealand 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

This message is intended for the adresse named above and may contain privileged or confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose it to anyone.

From: delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz] On Behalf Of Leigh Wanstead
Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 4:56 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Multi client website

Hi Stefan,

You suggested to jump the ship from delphi to c#.

If you really want to do that, I think that you need to consider following issue.

To use asp.net mvc involves a cost which requires a windows server and iis. Windows server cost license fee.

If you do it in linux, you can save the license fee of windows to buy some really nice stuff. :-)

It is very slow to use asp.net mvc using amazon aws free server. It is very fast to do ubuntu linux on amazon aws ec2 free server to do web hosting. 

Regards

Leigh

On 31 July 2016 at 18:49, Stefan Mueller <muellers at orcl-toolbox.com> wrote:

Couple of thoughts:

·        Don’t use Delphi for that, use ASP.Net MVC ... if you do web then using a proper web development tool makes things a lot easier. Delphi IntraWeb is probably ok if you need to cobble together a simple page and only know Delphi .. but other than that it’s a dead-end. The ASP.Net community is thriving with new exciting development and support available there. I am very fond of ASP.Net MVC, it does a lot of things right and is easy to learn coming from Delphi.

·        ASP.Net MVC routing & controllers architecture lets you seamlessly merge custom client pages with your “common” pages. You also get a lot of security already out of the box with that framework and handled for you (mentioning Cross-site scripting & Cross-site request forgery here) as well as client side forms validations. 

·        DNS supports wildcard matching for a non-existing domain .. you can create a DNS record like “*.mydomain.co.nz” to point all to the same endpoint

·        On that endpoint you then can check the name of the domain requested and use that one to point to the right locations for your css/images (could even check if any for those customized files exists and if not serve your default files).  

·        Cookies are a client side thing, what you really need is a server side solution to know what content to serve. Cookies can’t handle things such as website users that link to a common page first without having visited the client page first … and obviously website users wanting to watch 2 different of your clients websites also wouldn’t work because a cookie can only point to one client at a time … and then there are users (including google/bing/yahoo-bots that index your pages) that have cookies disabled.

Kind regards,

Stefan Müller,
R&D Manager

ORCL Toolbox Ltd. 
Auckland, New Zealand 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

This message is intended for the adresse named above and may contain privileged or confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose it to anyone.

From: delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz] On Behalf Of John C
Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2016 1:42 p.m.
To: 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'
Subject: [DUG] Multi client website

Hi all

I have a website what will be available to the public but specific for more than one clients. The frame work of the website will be the same for each client but their images and CSS file will be different (making it look differently).

The plan is to have a sub-domain for each client from where it will jump to the "common" pages on the main domain. The index file on each sub.domain identifies the client and therefore define the directory path to use for the images and the CSS file.

I was thinking of doing this with cookies for the paths to be used in the main program, but I'm not sure it would be a good plan and if that will work properly (setting a cookie from within a sub.domain to be used in the main domain).

Any ideas or suggestions of how to do this?

Thanks a lot in advance

John C

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