[DUG] Delphi Starter Edition
Alister Christie
alister at salespartner.co.nz
Tue Feb 1 16:21:02 NZDT 2011
I'm suspecting that everyone on this list is not a candidate for the
Starter Edition - or am I wrong?
Alister Christie
Computers for People
Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266
http://www.salespartner.co.nz
PO Box 13085
Johnsonville
Wellington
On 1/02/2011 4:02 p.m., Kyley Harris wrote:
> I may be wrong, but I thought the Pro version introduced the DB
> section and the Tdataset.
>
> Personally. I dont even use the VCL in a visual way.. and I never
> insteall anything into the IDE because it always seems to bite me later.
>
> I've certainly never needed the enterprise features for anything.
>
> Jolyon is right though in that each person has individual needs. The
> entire thing is component driven.. so wouldn't it be great if there
> was just 1 nice low price that almost everyone could afford for the
> equivalent of a Pro version, and then they charge each Component suite
> at whatever price they feel it merits and do away with the concept of
> an enterprise licence.
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:51 PM, David Brennan
> <dugdavid at dbsolutions.co.nz <mailto:dugdavid at dbsolutions.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> I thought Standard was mostly equivalent to the Pro version in
> terms of functionality? Or is it crippled in some fashion?
>
> *From:*delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>
> [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>] *On Behalf Of *Leigh Wanstead
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 3:11 p.m.
>
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition
>
> Hi Kyley,
>
> I agree with you. I wish Pro licenses to everyone for $300 J
>
> Have a nice day
>
> Regards
>
> Leigh
>
> *From:*delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>
> [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>] *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 3:05 p.m.
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition
>
> To be quite honest..
>
> if I was *new* and looking at a software language, then what would
> be far more appealing to me would be a licence that allowed me to
> fully try before I buy, without restrictions. a Cut Down Version
> wont make me decide to buy a fully fledged version, because Id
> have no experience seeing if it does what I think it should. A
> time period suitable enough for me to determine if the product is
> valuable to me.. After that time period, I'd either expect to pay
> a fair price, or to stop using it..
>
> I'd rather Embacardo targeted selling Pro licenses to everyone for
> $300 rather than a minority at $3000. lol ..
>
> Its times like these when I fondly remember Turbo Pascal 7.0 and
> how wonderful its documentation and simplicity were ;D (and its price)
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Jolyon Smith <jsmith at deltics.co.nz
> <mailto:jsmith at deltics.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> Who said anything about providing “unrestricted full access
> licenses on an honour system” ? That’s an extrapolation of an
> argument nobody is making to a conclusion that nobody is suggesting.
>
> All I am saying is that imposing a license restriction could be
> counter-productive. We can sit and argue the cases that it works
> for vs the cases that it doesn’t until the cows come home, all
> from the comfortable position of already having access to the
> Professional/Enterprise/Architect licenses we already use.
>
> I simply suggest the view that US$1000 doesn’t work in a
> sufficiently high proportion of possible and realistic scenarios
> that it could act as a strong DISincentive to the very people that
> the new Start Edition is intended to attract. The marketing
> message is “GET DELPHI FOR $200 NOW [/and be forced to pay $800
> more later or lose what you already paid for/]” vs “FREE FOREVER”
>
> That’s not to say that Delphi itself must be “FREE FOREVER”, only
> that it needs a better message than this bait-and-switch if it is
> to realistically **compete** with FREE FOREVER in the space that
> we are told this new edition is targeted at, and that IS the space
> it is competing in.
>
> And do not forget that I still think this is better than what we
> had before. J
>
> The bigger [potential] problem being that if/when the Starter
> Edition **fails** to attract these new users, Embarcadero will
> turn around and declare them a failure, that there isn’t a market
> for an entry level Delphi, and that this vindicates and justifies
> the higher pricing.
>
> Turbo Redux.
>
> *From:*delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>
> [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>] *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 14:16
>
>
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition
>
> I understand all your points..
>
> Now.. Lets do a survey of Delphi developers.. How many people are
> there writing software in delphi and providing unrestricted full
> access licenses on an Honor system with the expectation that their
> clients might pay them later? excluding any trial limits, feature
> restrictions etc etc, but relying on a paper licence unsigned that
> states some rules that might get enforced.
>
> I think the reality is that people will take it if it seems fair,
> and wont take it if it doesn't, but there isn't much point
> worrying about it.
>
> its a buyers market and the real loss will be to embacardo if they
> have made a bad decision.
>
> Whats that saying.. Better a million people pirating my software
> than pirating the competitions. :) eventually there is a return
> from someone.
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Jolyon Smith <jsmith at deltics.co.nz
> <mailto:jsmith at deltics.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> I find it depressing that people still can’t seem to get away from
> thinking that people will set out to “cheat” Embarcadero by gaming
> reasonable license restrictions.
>
> Most (“most” not “all”) people only “cheat” when they feel that
> the rules aren’t fair in the first place.
>
> And as for profit being harder to track than revenue, just how are
> Embarcadero going to track/monitor revenue in this area in the
> first place? What earnings DO they recognise as relevant
> revenue? Without requiring that only registered companies qualify
> for purchasing these licenses, how do they expect to compel a set
> of audited accounts from their Starter licensees ?
>
> My guess: They won’t be enforcing the license terms in this way at
> all. They will operate an “honour” system, in which case, making
> that system fair and reasonable is the best way to ensure compliance.
>
> But the idea is to attract new users, right? Users who do Delphi
> as a hobby or who have an idea that **might** make a little money
> (or maybe a lot, tho in that latter case I don’t think Pro license
> costs will necessarily hold them back).
>
> Comparing to another of my hobbies (photography), if I spend $1000
> on printing photos that I sell to my friends/colleagues for $1000,
> have I “made” $1000 ?
>
> If Embarcadero were licensing me my camera they would say “yes”,
> even tho my hobby is a break-even activity for me (allowing only
> for directly measureable costs, and not other costs that are
> involved). And once I tip over that $1000 _revenue_, my license
> costs go up immensely, and if I don’t pay up, not only do I not
> get access to the bigger/better/brighter features (that I don’t
> actually need, since by definition I didn’t use them to get that
> far in the first place) but I also lose the right to use the tools
> I already paid for!!
>
> I think I’d choose a different camera, wouldn’t you ?
>
> In the grand scheme of things I don’t see the idea of a revenue
> limit a problem per se, but $1000 really isn’t very much and by no
> means establishes an “ability to pay” for Professional licenses on
> an on-going basis. What if I “earn” $1000 in the first 6 months
> from a flood of donations from interested users etc. I am
> compelled to shell out $800 to remain within the terms of my
> license. But then the donations dry up after that, reducing to
> perhaps $500-$800 over the next 12 months?
>
> I don’t think this is an entirely fantastical situation to imagine.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I think Delphi Starter is better than what we
> had before (i.e. nothing) but this particular aspect of the
> license is worrying (in terms of what it suggests in the thinking
> of those behind the initiative).
>
> *From:*delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>
> [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> <mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz>] *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:04
>
>
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition
>
> I would think Students too..
>
> And I guess if you actually start making a $1000 they figure its
> enough to pay for the software and then keep making money :D
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy North
> <jeremy.north at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.north at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > The $1000 revenue limit is also bizarrely low imho - it's high
> enough to
> > worm it's way around any "non-commercial use" restriction, but
> not high
> > enough to realistically be anything other than a "non-commercial
> use only"
> > restriction in all but name.
>
> It is targeted at open source or hobbyists developers. I don't see any
> issues with the limit.
>
> Is the $1000 per year or a running total?
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
>
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> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
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