[DUG] Apologies (Was RE: Validating CDS files)

[Matthew Comb]

Hi Jolyon,

At the end of the day its about respect, and that seems to be in short
supply these days.

I appreciate the inputs you bring, and your depth of knowledge, at the
same time, a continual rant of something off the mark, twisting of words,
and misquotation is bully boy behaviour, and I think its not necessary.

I would like to see a return to old, where people can operate off an even
slate, none of this Gen-Y crap. where whoever rants longest wins

I accept your apology. (Even if not directed to me :) )

Matt

> I do hope Kyley's comments were intended with tongue in cheek.
>
>
>
> Matthew's comments about people feeling "flamed" surprised and saddened
> me... I was only replying to his messages, and when someone publicly
> accuses
> me of arrogance and regarding someone as retarded when I absolutely did
> not,
> I feel entitled to defend myself equally as publicly.
>
>
>
> If that has upset anyone then I apologise, but I certainly don't
> understand
> why it should make anyone feel disinclined to post to the list as Matthew
> seems to have been told or indeed why anyone feeling that way didn't think
> to address me directly with any concerns about any perceived "bad
> behaviour"
> on the list.
>
>
>
>
>
> I can't quite believe or understand how or why a well intentioned effort
> to
> help someone could have been interpreted so wrongly or why it turned into
> a
> character assassination in the way that it did.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz]
> On
> Behalf Of Kyley Harris
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 January 2011 13:40
> To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> Subject: Re: [DUG] Validating CDS files
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if you analyzed your need for popcorn carefullly. You asked
> for popcorn.. you got your popcorn. but perhaps you've been taken for a
> ride. If we analyze your need carefully for an hour, what we could have
> determined is that you truley wanted a 30 minute comedy show, and some
> salt
> - and -vinegar chips to go with it. Not popcorn at all. Perhaps the desire
> for popcorn stemmed from your not correctly seeing your needs in the first
> place. I feel its my duty to help you access the situtation so that you
> get
> what you need and not what you want.
>
> We could discuss this further privately, and I'm sure with all my
> experience
> in these situations that a 3 hour lunch break daily, with said included
> comedies and chips will satisfy your needs more appropriately.. The
> Popcorn
> is just a bandaid.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:44 PM, David Brennan
> <dugdavid at dbsolutions.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> Mmmm, I'm enjoying my popcorn as I watch...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz]
> On
> Behalf Of Matthew Comb
>
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 January 2011 11:12 a.m.
> To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> Subject: Re: [DUG] Validating CDS files
>
>> Those developers that came back with "TO DO" lists were perhaps
>> themselves
>> not taking the time to understand the customers problems.  The customer
>> told
>> them "those 10,000 features are great, but we'd really like X, Y and Z",
>> so
>> the developers simply came back to you with that list of "X, Y and Z".
>>
>> Far from analysing too much, they were most likely not analysing
>> *enough*.
>
> What your argument does not take into account yet again (which was my
> point that was missed), is the time and money factor. If you have a 1 day
> or 2 day install, you do not have time to spend all 2 days taking on
> customer requests when the customer is not yet up to speed with the
> capabilities of the system. A customer often doesn't know what they need
> until they get to use the system, then their requirements frequently
> change. If you have unlimited time and money then by all means, spend
> every waking moment analysing each and every item raised, Cameron would
> probably tear his hair out.
>
>>
>>
>> That specialist you hired is most likely looking at the X, Y and Z and
>> then
>> asking the customer... "But what do you need X, Y and Z for?" then
>> showing
>> them that they already HAVE X, Y and Z among the 10,000 other features.
>>
>>
>> That quite neatly demonstrates my point I think.  Understand the
>> problem...
>> not only might the solution you are asking for not be ideal, but you
>> might
>> already be in possession of the solution !!!
>>
>
> I don't think it does at all.
>
>>
>>
>>   "I have a legacy piece of software which very very rarely corrupts a
>>    local data file - fact"
>>
>> The real problem to be solved is how/why the corruption occurs...
>> everything
>> else is just sticking plaster, not a solution, and even the sticking
>> plaster
>> can only help if you apply the right sort of dressing correctly.
>
> Thats right, that is the root problem, but as this piece of software has
> been in the field for 8 years, and is being decommissioned, there isn't a
> lot of point in that is there. So a bandaid is more than adequate.
>
>>
>>
>>   "Regardless of the better long term solutions, we will take
>>    a defensive programming measure to protect against the loading
>>    of corrupt files."
>>
>> And my point in this area was that unless you understand how/where the
>> corruption is occurring, the defensive measures you might take may very
>> well
>> end up not being defensive at all.
>
> If you validate a CDS file, and don't load it if it is corrupt. That is a
> defensive measure.
>
>>
>> e.g. the idea of checksuming the output from the server...  if the data
>> coming from the server is corrupt from the get-go, then check-summing
>> helps
>> you not one little bit.
>>
>
> Agreed which is why I didn't ask about it.
>
>>
>>
>> You initially blamed the corruption on a flaky wifi connection - highly
>> unlikely for the reasons that I and others have explained.  You then
>> explained that you were streaming the data, so the corruption might
>> occur
>> in
>> sporadic bytes in the stream.
>
> I do not believe I did suggest the contents of the stream would be
> changed. What I said was that a TCP steam can be disconnected.  this was
> yet another wild assumption on your part. If you send a 1GB file through a
> stream, it is NOT as Kyley suggested an All or Nothing approach. You are
> taking bytes into a stream. It is up to you whether or not you discard the
> stream based on a disconnection or not. That decision point is out of my
> control as it is Midas + DBX4MySQL which manages this.
>
>>
>> But then you seemed attracted to the idea of using XML as a potential
>> way
>> forward, which would seem to contradict the streaming nature of the data
>> transmission.
>
> The incorrect assumption you made at the beginnning was that the CDS file
> was coming from the server as a file payload. Its not. The client is
> connecting to MySQL DB server directly. All suggestions and
> misunderstandings about hashing, file downloads, etc were based on that
> incorrect assumption.
>
>>
>> And now you admit:
>>
>>    "I do not know yet where this corruption occurs. DB Server, Drivers,
>>     In Memory, Saving of the file, Server DB."
>
> I don't, and it doesn't matter. Why ? Because at a rate of 1/10000 it is a
> manageable issue, and with the software being decommissioned it is good
> business sense to investigate the server mechanics. its better to bandaid
> and move on.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   "Its not true to take the standpoint that if someone asks for the
>> solution
>>    then they should be able to provide it e.g  If I ask for Word 2010
>> should
>>    I be capable of sitting down and writing the application suite?"
>>
>> I didn't say that they *should* be able to provide it in the sense that
>> you
>> took it to mean - I said as to draw attention to the inherent
>> contradiction.
>> The only way you can confidently ask for a solution in the form of a
>> solution specification, without explaining the problem, is if you fully
>> understand the problem and *could* provide the solution yourself.  In
>> which
>> case, you would never have needed to ask someone else to provide the
>> solution for you.
>
> Thats just rubbish.
>
>>
>> In other words, when someone asks for a solution, rather than stating a
>> problem, the likelihood is that they are asking for the wrong solution
>> from
>> the very start!
>
> Statistically probably correct more often than not, but still an arrogant
> assumption that the person is clueless / uninformed of possible solutions.
>
> Its also arrogant to assume you know everything abou the motivation and
> drivers as to why the person asked the question in the first place.
>
> For example in this case, the fact that the software is being
> decommissioned and the fact that its rarity does not make a server
> solution fiscally viable.
>
>>
>>
>> Your "Word 2010" example this is a quite different sort of request from
>> what
>> we are actually discussing (it's not a "technical solution" just a
>> shopping
>> list), never-the-less even this inappropriate parallel can be used to
>> illustrate the same point:
>>
>>
>> If you ask for Word 2010, should I just sell it to you simply because
>> you
>> can't write it yourself ?
>
> That logic much like the rest of your logic is flawed. I did not say that
> you should sell it to me because I could not program it. You should sell
> it to me because I asked to buy it.
>
> I am asking to buy it, because I don't want to program it.
>
>>
>> Or should I first ask what you need it for.... ?
>>
>> If you tell me you want it for doing bulk emails, and you heard that
>> Word
>> 2010 has some neat mail-merging capabilities, then I am pretty confident
>> that I can sell you a better solution for your needs than just handing
>> over
>> a copy of Word 2010.
>
> Again you are incorrectly assuming that the person asking the question is
> a retard.
>
>>
>> I could just give you what you want, but that may not be what you need.
>>
>
> Its not your decision to make.
>
>>
>> Incidentally, nobody "gave me" a blog.  I created my blog in order to
>> share
>> my skills and experience and - if my stats are to be believed - many,
>> many
>> people appreciate it.
>
> Actually I've found your blog to be very good and useful. I feel that if
> you reigned in the arrogance a tad, you might get places faster.
>
>> I gain some sense of satisfaction from the fact that people (well,
>> *some*
>> people at least) seem to appreciate my effort, but it certainly doesn't
>> "go
>> to my head".
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
>> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
>> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
>> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
>> unsubscribe
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
> unsubscribe
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
> unsubscribe
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
> unsubscribe