[DUG] Budget/Turbo editions of Delphi

Fri Sep 25 00:14:58 NZST 2009

This is going to satrt to sound like a Monty Python sketch, but ...

You got off lightly, In my day we had to make appointments at Vic for punch
card desks!

Paul

2009/9/23 Alister Christie <alister at salespartner.co.nz>

> When I did COMP102 & 103 at Victoria Uni they were teaching Think Pascal
> on old (even then) Apple Macs. We were issued with 2 720k floppy disks,
> one to boot the operating system, the other one for the compiler and our
> code. If you were lucky you could get on one of the newer machines (they
> were still old) which had 10MB Hard disks. They switched to Java
> sometime later and I have no idea what they are teaching now.
>
> Alister Christie
> Computers for People
> Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266
> http://www.salespartner.co.nz
> PO Box 13085
> Johnsonville
> Wellington
>
>
>
> Jolyon Smith wrote:
> >
> > FWIW - I think the Academic market is lost to Pascal now.
> >
> > Academia these days is not as much about learning principles (for
> > which Pascal and therefore Delphi is ideally suited) as much as
> > preparing drones for the business world, in which case Delphi – much
> > as we might wish it weren’t so – simply is not _as_ relevant as C#,
> > Java or .NET etc.
> >
> > BUT – if there were to be an Academic Edition (I think there already
> > is), it should not be constrained by the entirely separate and
> > different needs of a personal, part-time hobbyist user (and neither
> > should a hobbyist edition struggle or contort itself to accommodate
> > the needs of a student).
> >
> > e.g. students should learn about refactorings and model driven
> > development, but a hobbyist really doesn’t need these things (sure
> > we’d like them for free, but we don’t **need** them – our time
> > **isn’t** money).
> >
> > Plus an Academic license should normally be attached to the seat in
> > the institution, not the individual occupying that seat in a given
> > semester, so pricing of an Academic license is more likely to be a
> > volume deal where the student isn’t actually paying for the license
> > (directly – although it will likely be in the course fees to an
> > extent) as opposed to pricing of a hobbyist/community edition which
> > specifically targets and needs to appeal to the pocket of an
> > individual user.
> >
> > *From:* delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
> > [mailto:delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 September 2009 1:33 p.m.
> > *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> > *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Budget/Turbo editions of Delphi
> >
> > Gary.. I fully agree that cheap or free access to the language tools
> > to students, or any "Learner" is key to building the success of a
> > development language.. They will then want to take those skills to any
> > company or work driven environment.. I think a full blown free version
> > is the best way to go, with a compiler built in limitation on the EXE
> > execution time... as you say.. 30 minutes or so..
> >
> > This also lets people build demonstration applications that can be
> > produced on request to potential employers.
> >
> > When I first learnt pascal and ansi c, i was 14, and bought a copy of
> > Turbo Pascal 4 for about $40 and got all my training material via a
> > couple of Advanced Algorithm books, Database Construction books..
> > (meaning make your own DB and indexes.. Lol ) and a bunch of bulletin
> > board tutorials.. Without this "Free*" resource.. life as a 14 year
> > old would have been impossible
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Gary T. Benner <gary at benner.co.nz
> > <mailto:gary at benner.co.nz>> wrote:
> >
> > *[Reply]*
> >
> > HI all,
> >
> > As a Delphi teacher for some many years I found the Turbos irrelevant,
> > as components are a fundamental part of good OO programming, and it
> > was impossible to teach Delphi properly without new components being
> > able to be created and installed in the IDE.
> >
> > Personally I'd like to see a $25 fee for Academic Delphi - get's the
> > Students into the system - and that the compiler be limited to what
> > they could do ... eg. a nag screen at the start of any application not
> > started within Delphi, and something like a 30 min time limit for
> > application execution. .. etc
> >
> > Otherwise the Delphi should run as per the real thing.
> >
> > Students will get cracked versions otherwise, and they can be very
> > creative at that.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > A*t 12:59 on 22/09/2009 you wrote *
> >
> > >To : delphi at delphi.org.nz <mailto:delphi at delphi.org.nz>
> >
> > >CC :
> >
> > >From: John Bird, johnkbird at paradise.net.nz
> > <mailto:johnkbird at paradise.net.nz>
>  >
> > >Content Type: text/plain
> >
> > >Attached:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >If Turbo versions of Delphi are not available, it is a great idea to
> have
> >
> > >them as PR to get students getting free versions to learn on. Without
> >
> > >Embarcadero losing money on commercial sales.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >Interested to hear others ideas how such editions could work.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >My ideas:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Preventing installation of components as in the past is simple - but
> > some
> >
> > >large scale commercial programs could still be made, so I think it needs
> >
> > >more.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Either disabling printing if included (Rave reports) or all printing
> >
> > >carries a water mark "Student Edition - not for commercial use".
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-All program windows contains some signature eg "Student edition" in the
> >
> > >title bar
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-some smart restrictions on what can be produced.......eg cheap or
> > free DB
> >
> > >licences limit to often only 5 connections. Maybe limit units to 4000
> >
> > >lines of code, or forms to 30 components total, and listviews and
> > grids to
> >
> > >200 lines,
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Programs might only run for 1 hour maximum and exit with a reminder
> > screen,
> >
> > >or will not run at all after say 1-2 years.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Alternatively charge strictly on a usage basis - eg start with $20 free
> >
> > >credit. Every compile takes 10cents of credit, every debugger run
> > takes 20
> >
> > >cents off, editing takes off 1 cent per hour. When credit is used up IDE
> >
> > >stops working, and you have to uninstall and reinstall. (Transaction
> > based
> >
> > >charging like this is a favourite of mine, incorporated into some of my
> >
> > >programs).
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Expiry date on IDE, have to uninstall and reinstall to get more.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >-Student edition could cost say $25 or be free, depending on how
> > restricted.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >A combination of more than one of these would mean commercial developers
> >
> > >would still get the real versions, and be not too mean on students.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >Choose what is good to limit, and let them otherwise have a fully
> > functional
> >
> > >version - in reality they won't be writing very large programs, so
> > that is
> >
> > >what to limit.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >Personally I would favour the combination of
> >
> > >-Watermarks on printing
> >
> > >-limits on grid size and number of components on a form
> >
> > >-programs run for 1 hour maximum.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >John
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> >
> > >NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> >
> > >Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz <mailto:delphi at delphi.org.nz>
> >
> > >Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> >
> > >Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz
> > <mailto:delphi-request at delphi.org.nz> with Subject: unsubscribe
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Benner
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Semantic Limited <http://www.semantic.co.nz> - Online Education,
> > e-Commerce, Software Development & Systems Design
> >
> > 123 Internet Limited <http://www.123.net.nz> - Managed Web Hosting,
> > Virtualisation, High Availability Systems & Cluster Technologies
> >
> > *Mob:* 021 966 992
> >
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> >
> > *Email:* gary at benner.co.nz <mailto:gary at benner.co.nz>
> >
> > *Skype:* garybenner
> >
> >
> >
> > Ref#: 41006
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kyley Harris
> > Harris Software
> > +64-21-671-821
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
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