<div>This is going to satrt to sound like a Monty Python sketch, but ...</div>
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<div>You got off lightly, In my day we had to make appointments at Vic for punch card desks!</div>
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<div>Paul<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2009/9/23 Alister Christie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alister@salespartner.co.nz">alister@salespartner.co.nz</a>></span><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">When I did COMP102 & 103 at Victoria Uni they were teaching Think Pascal<br>on old (even then) Apple Macs. We were issued with 2 720k floppy disks,<br>
one to boot the operating system, the other one for the compiler and our<br>code. If you were lucky you could get on one of the newer machines (they<br>were still old) which had 10MB Hard disks. They switched to Java<br>sometime later and I have no idea what they are teaching now.<br>
<br>Alister Christie<br>Computers for People<br>Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266<br><a href="http://www.salespartner.co.nz/" target="_blank">http://www.salespartner.co.nz</a><br>PO Box 13085<br>Johnsonville<br>Wellington<br>
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<div class="h5"><br><br><br>Jolyon Smith wrote:<br>><br>> FWIW - I think the Academic market is lost to Pascal now.<br>><br>> Academia these days is not as much about learning principles (for<br>> which Pascal and therefore Delphi is ideally suited) as much as<br>
> preparing drones for the business world, in which case Delphi – much<br>> as we might wish it weren’t so – simply is not _as_ relevant as C#,<br>> Java or .NET etc.<br>><br>> BUT – if there were to be an Academic Edition (I think there already<br>
> is), it should not be constrained by the entirely separate and<br>> different needs of a personal, part-time hobbyist user (and neither<br>> should a hobbyist edition struggle or contort itself to accommodate<br>
> the needs of a student).<br>><br>> e.g. students should learn about refactorings and model driven<br>> development, but a hobbyist really doesn’t need these things (sure<br>> we’d like them for free, but we don’t **need** them – our time<br>
> **isn’t** money).<br>><br>> Plus an Academic license should normally be attached to the seat in<br>> the institution, not the individual occupying that seat in a given<br>> semester, so pricing of an Academic license is more likely to be a<br>
> volume deal where the student isn’t actually paying for the license<br>> (directly – although it will likely be in the course fees to an<br>> extent) as opposed to pricing of a hobbyist/community edition which<br>
> specifically targets and needs to appeal to the pocket of an<br>> individual user.<br>><br>> *From:* <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a><br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>] *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 September 2009 1:33 p.m.<br>> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Budget/Turbo editions of Delphi<br>><br>> Gary.. I fully agree that cheap or free access to the language tools<br>
> to students, or any "Learner" is key to building the success of a<br>> development language.. They will then want to take those skills to any<br>> company or work driven environment.. I think a full blown free version<br>
> is the best way to go, with a compiler built in limitation on the EXE<br>> execution time... as you say.. 30 minutes or so..<br>><br>> This also lets people build demonstration applications that can be<br>> produced on request to potential employers.<br>
><br>> When I first learnt pascal and ansi c, i was 14, and bought a copy of<br>> Turbo Pascal 4 for about $40 and got all my training material via a<br>> couple of Advanced Algorithm books, Database Construction books..<br>
> (meaning make your own DB and indexes.. Lol ) and a bunch of bulletin<br>> board tutorials.. Without this "Free*" resource.. life as a 14 year<br>> old would have been impossible<br>><br>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Gary T. Benner <<a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz">gary@benner.co.nz</a><br>
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<div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz">gary@benner.co.nz</a>>> wrote:<br>><br>> *[Reply]*<br>><br>> HI all,<br>><br>> As a Delphi teacher for some many years I found the Turbos irrelevant,<br>
> as components are a fundamental part of good OO programming, and it<br>> was impossible to teach Delphi properly without new components being<br>> able to be created and installed in the IDE.<br>><br>> Personally I'd like to see a $25 fee for Academic Delphi - get's the<br>
> Students into the system - and that the compiler be limited to what<br>> they could do ... eg. a nag screen at the start of any application not<br>> started within Delphi, and something like a 30 min time limit for<br>
> application execution. .. etc<br>><br>> Otherwise the Delphi should run as per the real thing.<br>><br>> Students will get cracked versions otherwise, and they can be very<br>> creative at that.<br>><br>
> HTH<br>><br>> Gary<br>><br></div>> A*t 12:59 on 22/09/2009 you wrote *<br>><br>> >To : <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">><br>> >CC :<br>><br>> >From: John Bird, <a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a><br></div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a>><br>
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<div class="h5">><br>> >Content Type: text/plain<br>><br>> >Attached:<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >If Turbo versions of Delphi are not available, it is a great idea to have<br>><br>> >them as PR to get students getting free versions to learn on. Without<br>
><br>> >Embarcadero losing money on commercial sales.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >Interested to hear others ideas how such editions could work.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >My ideas:<br>><br>
> ><br>><br>> >-Preventing installation of components as in the past is simple - but<br>> some<br>><br>> >large scale commercial programs could still be made, so I think it needs<br>><br>> >more.<br>
><br>> ><br>><br>> >-Either disabling printing if included (Rave reports) or all printing<br>><br>> >carries a water mark "Student Edition - not for commercial use".<br>><br>> ><br>
><br>> >-All program windows contains some signature eg "Student edition" in the<br>><br>> >title bar<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >-some smart restrictions on what can be produced.......eg cheap or<br>
> free DB<br>><br>> >licences limit to often only 5 connections. Maybe limit units to 4000<br>><br>> >lines of code, or forms to 30 components total, and listviews and<br>> grids to<br>><br>> >200 lines,<br>
><br>> ><br>><br>> >-Programs might only run for 1 hour maximum and exit with a reminder<br>> screen,<br>><br>> >or will not run at all after say 1-2 years.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >-Alternatively charge strictly on a usage basis - eg start with $20 free<br>
><br>> >credit. Every compile takes 10cents of credit, every debugger run<br>> takes 20<br>><br>> >cents off, editing takes off 1 cent per hour. When credit is used up IDE<br>><br>> >stops working, and you have to uninstall and reinstall. (Transaction<br>
> based<br>><br>> >charging like this is a favourite of mine, incorporated into some of my<br>><br>> >programs).<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >-Expiry date on IDE, have to uninstall and reinstall to get more.<br>
><br>> ><br>><br>> >-Student edition could cost say $25 or be free, depending on how<br>> restricted.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >A combination of more than one of these would mean commercial developers<br>
><br>> >would still get the real versions, and be not too mean on students.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >Choose what is good to limit, and let them otherwise have a fully<br>> functional<br>><br>
> >version - in reality they won't be writing very large programs, so<br>> that is<br>><br>> >what to limit.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >Personally I would favour the combination of<br>><br>
> >-Watermarks on printing<br>><br>> >-limits on grid size and number of components on a form<br>><br>> >-programs run for 1 hour maximum.<br>><br>> ><br>><br>> >John<br>><br>> ><br>
><br>> ><br>><br>> >_______________________________________________<br>><br>> >NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>><br></div></div>> >Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">><br>> >Admin: <a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>><br>> >Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@delphi.org.nz">delphi-request@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
</div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-request@delphi.org.nz">delphi-request@delphi.org.nz</a>> with Subject: unsubscribe<br>><br>> ><br>><br>><br>><br>> Gary Benner<br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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<div class="im">><br>> *Skype:* garybenner<br>><br>><br>><br>> Ref#: 41006<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>
</div>> Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a>><br>
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<div class="im">><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Kyley Harris<br>> Harris Software<br>> +64-21-671-821<br>><br></div>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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