[DUG] Bristol Cars. A Development Model.

[Kyley Harris]

 >>In that case why piss about with Interbase, When was the last time 
the customer came to you and asked "Does it use Interbase as its 
 >>database"

My customers generally dont ask me, Does it use PostGreSQL either... 
They dont ask if its oracle either, or if its MSSQL. My customers love 
to play with money because they are bankers.. They barely know the 
difference between a spreadsheet and a database sometimes.

They questions they ask me are: Will it work? will it do the job? will 
it save me money, and make me money?

Interbase answers all 3. They are not interested in how I do my job, and 
they dont care about it being interbase or DBF or anything. only in 
reliability. I piss around with interbase because it has never let me 
down in over 12 years. It also has not let my customers down, and they 
dont have to pay someone to be a DBA. yet it offers most of the 
necessary features of databases that do require it. I am not saying it 
is better than PostgreSQL, because I don't know. I am saying that it has 
been around a damn long time and works just fine. If they want to use 
another database, I couldn't care less, because my architecture will 
support anything that uses SQL.

I think we'll need a cafe to resume this debate. It's like the never 
ending story..

Do Porches disqualify you... Yes. The specification said AUDI or BMW... :D

regards
  Kyley

Neven MacEwan wrote:

> Kyley
>
>
>> Well. It's always good to have input.
>> I did get your point actually. and in many ways I may not disagree.
>
>
> You have a strange way of agreeing
>
>> My point was to play advocate for your opinions which are strongly 
>> worded as facts. You are writing comments which imply a knowledge and 
>> understanding of other peoples companies and infrastructure and goals 
>> that would almost need to benefit from being an employee or inside 
>> man ;)
>
>
> Maybe I'm a software developement historian, Iv'e known Max and Paul a 
> long time.
>
>> You keep talking about the less-qualified people making all the bad 
>> mistakes etc etc.
>
>
> Are they mistakes? You can't argue with success, all I said was that the
> decisions in my opinion were not necesarily meritocritous
>
>> but who are those people? would they be all the rich successful 
>> people who do not think the world revolves around software....
>
>
> The MySQL Phenomenum was fueled by Web Hacks, Commercial success was 
> not a criteria
>
>> I guess the inherant quality all those rubbishy applications have is 
>> to make more money for people who "don't know any better" :)
>> And those don't know any better people will drive around in their 
>> BMW's and AUDI's telling there well-qualified software guys to hurry 
>> the hell up.
>
>
> I writes software and have 2 Porsches does that disqualify me?
>
>> Trust me.. it drives me nuts too... but the customer is right. always.
>
>
> In that case why piss about with Interbase, When was the last time the 
> customer came to you and asked "Does it use Interbase as its database"
>
>> Thats probably why you are going to grow truffles with all your 
>> acumen and use MS Word to write to your customers, with a bit of 
>> Excel on the side and let the accountant dabble in MYOB. Once you 
>> start working in a "real" non-software world, I find that the brain 
>> really doesn't care about the quality of the product under the hood 
>> just the job that it does to make money.
>
>
> Actually I've been in the real world a while, as for software Firefox, 
> Thunderbird, Open Office, PHP 5, Delphi are my most common tools (and 
> FreePDF XP, sending out Word documents is like not washing your hands 
> after a pee, a public health issue)
>
>> Oh, and the reporting 3 tier thing is no problem.. done ages ago.. 
>> but its not open-source, not even for sale, and no one gets to see 
>> it.. I think M$ calls it commercial advantage, because its about 
>> money isn't it, rather than Open-Sourced friendship :) Right Richard? 
>> (about the money)
>
>
> I didn't say it hasn't been done, Just that Paul and Max hadn't
>
> Like the smilies
>
> Neven
>
>
>> Neven MacEwan wrote:
>>
>>> Kyley
>>>
>>> Sorry you missed the point, The component they made for 20 was 
>>> generally no better than the one off the shelf. In fact on of the 
>>> best things about early bristols was the BMW engine. Exclusive and 
>>> Expensive yes, good cars probably, but they are not great cars. You 
>>> must give them credit for aluminium bodywork (on an italian 
>>> principle) and windtunnel testing (and the fact that they are still 
>>> in production)
>>>
>>> > Without developers like Paul and Profax pushing
>>> > the envelope we wouldn't have linux or any of the other things like
>>> > PostgeSQL which is also just another wheel.
>>>
>>> What? a propriertary Accounting System is comparable to an open 
>>> source project? have a look at www.compiere.org, The point I was 
>>> trying to make is that as much as I admire Paul & Max's work they 
>>> are not "pushing the envelope" they are making the "perfect envelope",
>>>
>>> FYI PostgreSQL was probably the first decent Open source DBMS 
>>> project, Technically it outstrips MySQL, but still plays 2nd fiddle 
>>> to it, Do you get it now? We may like to think that we work in a 
>>> meritocritous industry, but actually we are in an period where 
>>> disruptive Open Source technologies are taking a lot of directions 
>>> from commercial ones, enough il-qualified people saying a product is 
>>> 'good' is worth more than the products inherant qualities.
>>>
>>> Neven
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kyley Harris wrote:
>>>
>>>>  >The Profax/Accredo story reminds me of Bristol making cars, it 
>>>> was said that they wouldn't buy in a component for 5 pounds if they 
>>>> could  >make it for 20.
>>>>
>>>> I would say that this is actually a compliment in the best way ;) 
>>>> It means that you believe your customers should not settle for 
>>>> second best just because everyone elses customers have to... Good 
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>>  >> I've seen 2 Bristols on the road in my life.
>>>>
>>>> Who around here has? I don't hang out for tea and scones with the 
>>>> elite and go for a sunday drive in their Bristol before hopping on 
>>>> the private cruize liner home... The closest I come to is watching 
>>>> the apprentice with Donald Trump. ;) The type of person who spends 
>>>> 200,000 on a watch because Rolex is cliche....
>>>> If you were a car dealer/ or a software dealer would like to try 
>>>> and sell 20 Suzukis to people who are scrimping for funds, or sell 
>>>> one decent car to someone who has an open cheque for unique 
>>>> quality....? I prefer option 2.
>>>>
>>>> There are other companies around locally who have written their own 
>>>> databases ( not me ) and they did it when Microsoft didn't exist 
>>>> and oracle was a tiny nothing... Their customers will keep using it 
>>>> when Microsoft forces another reinvention of the wheel, because it 
>>>> works.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the Profax clients look at everyone elses products and go 
>>>> "Thank god I'm not using that ubiquitous shit." perhaps they are 
>>>> even happy to pay for a product that works instead of paying to 
>>>> have it get fixed all the time.
>>>>
>>>> I use delphi because I like pascal and Delphi did do a good job. I 
>>>> like firebird because it is simple light and quick. It never said 
>>>> it was oracle competition.. and it kicks ass over DBISAM and other 
>>>> small light databases. In fact in its class as a lightweight I 
>>>> would say that is is "Best of Breed" apples with apples. Perhaps 
>>>> that pathological M$ hatred is bleeding into other areas and the 
>>>> delusion is in hating a company, but then writing products for 
>>>> their OS's.
>>>>
>>>> Lastly... Delphi is OO and also non-OO. its each persons choice to 
>>>> use 1 or both options. and as for encapsulation... Just because 
>>>> delphi has a vcl, doesn't mean that its encapsulated, or even 
>>>> written properly, or bug free. Being OO does not automatically 
>>>> define encapsulation. If someone gives me a hammer with a split in 
>>>> the shaft that cant be glued back together its not reinventing the 
>>>> wheel to create a hammer that is better for that job..... Sometimes 
>>>> delphi gives you a sledge hammer when what you need is a soft 
>>>> mallet. Thats why we are programmers and architects. If you can't 
>>>> use your own creativity to decide that something is not right then 
>>>> you are basically a jigsaw puzzle maker, or a lego builder... If 
>>>> people didn't insist in reinventing things, we wouldn't have decent 
>>>> source code, or compilers or OS's. we wouldn't event have 
>>>> computers. without developers like Paul and Profax pushing the 
>>>> envelope we wouldn't have linux or any of the other things like 
>>>> PostgeSQL which is also just another wheel.
>>>>
>>>> that would be my 3c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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