[DUG] Bristol Cars. A Development Model.

[Neven MacEwan]

Kyley


> Well. It's always good to have input.
> I did get your point actually. and in many ways I may not disagree.

You have a strange way of agreeing

> My point was to play advocate for your opinions which are strongly 
> worded as facts. You are writing comments which imply a knowledge and 
> understanding of other peoples companies and infrastructure and goals 
> that would almost need to benefit from being an employee or inside man ;)

Maybe I'm a software developement historian, Iv'e known Max and Paul a 
long time.

> You keep talking about the less-qualified people making all the bad 
> mistakes etc etc.

Are they mistakes? You can't argue with success, all I said was that the
decisions in my opinion were not necesarily meritocritous

> but who are those people? would they be all the rich successful people 
> who do not think the world revolves around software....

The MySQL Phenomenum was fueled by Web Hacks, Commercial success was not 
a criteria

> I guess the inherant quality all those rubbishy applications have is to 
> make more money for people who "don't know any better" :)
> And those don't know any better people will drive around in their BMW's 
> and AUDI's telling there well-qualified software guys to hurry the hell up.

I writes software and have 2 Porsches does that disqualify me?

> Trust me.. it drives me nuts too... but the customer is right. always.

In that case why piss about with Interbase, When was the last time the 
customer came to you and asked "Does it use Interbase as its database"

> Thats probably why you are going to grow truffles with all your acumen 
> and use MS Word to write to your customers, with a bit of Excel on the 
> side and let the accountant dabble in MYOB. Once you start working in a 
> "real" non-software world, I find that the brain really doesn't care 
> about the quality of the product under the hood just the job that it 
> does to make money.

Actually I've been in the real world a while, as for software Firefox, 
Thunderbird, Open Office, PHP 5, Delphi are my most common tools (and 
FreePDF XP, sending out Word documents is like not washing your hands 
after a pee, a public health issue)

> Oh, and the reporting 3 tier thing is no problem.. done ages ago.. but 
> its not open-source, not even for sale, and no one gets to see it.. I 
> think M$ calls it commercial advantage, because its about money isn't 
> it, rather than Open-Sourced friendship :) Right Richard? (about the money)

I didn't say it hasn't been done, Just that Paul and Max hadn't

Like the smilies

Neven


> Neven MacEwan wrote:
> 
>> Kyley
>>
>> Sorry you missed the point, The component they made for 20 was 
>> generally no better than the one off the shelf. In fact on of the best 
>> things about early bristols was the BMW engine. Exclusive and 
>> Expensive yes, good cars probably, but they are not great cars. You 
>> must give them credit for aluminium bodywork (on an italian principle) 
>> and windtunnel testing (and the fact that they are still in production)
>>
>> > Without developers like Paul and Profax pushing
>> > the envelope we wouldn't have linux or any of the other things like
>> > PostgeSQL which is also just another wheel.
>>
>> What? a propriertary Accounting System is comparable to an open source 
>> project? have a look at www.compiere.org, The point I was trying to 
>> make is that as much as I admire Paul & Max's work they are not 
>> "pushing the envelope" they are making the "perfect envelope",
>>
>> FYI PostgreSQL was probably the first decent Open source DBMS project, 
>> Technically it outstrips MySQL, but still plays 2nd fiddle to it, Do 
>> you get it now? We may like to think that we work in a meritocritous 
>> industry, but actually we are in an period where disruptive Open 
>> Source technologies are taking a lot of directions from commercial 
>> ones, enough il-qualified people saying a product is 'good' is worth 
>> more than the products inherant qualities.
>>
>> Neven
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kyley Harris wrote:
>>
>>>  >The Profax/Accredo story reminds me of Bristol making cars, it was 
>>> said that they wouldn't buy in a component for 5 pounds if they could 
>>>  >make it for 20.
>>>
>>> I would say that this is actually a compliment in the best way ;) It 
>>> means that you believe your customers should not settle for second 
>>> best just because everyone elses customers have to... Good work.
>>>
>>>  >> I've seen 2 Bristols on the road in my life.
>>>
>>> Who around here has? I don't hang out for tea and scones with the 
>>> elite and go for a sunday drive in their Bristol before hopping on 
>>> the private cruize liner home... The closest I come to is watching 
>>> the apprentice with Donald Trump. ;) The type of person who spends 
>>> 200,000 on a watch because Rolex is cliche....
>>> If you were a car dealer/ or a software dealer would like to try and 
>>> sell 20 Suzukis to people who are scrimping for funds, or sell one 
>>> decent car to someone who has an open cheque for unique quality....? 
>>> I prefer option 2.
>>>
>>> There are other companies around locally who have written their own 
>>> databases ( not me ) and they did it when Microsoft didn't exist and 
>>> oracle was a tiny nothing... Their customers will keep using it when 
>>> Microsoft forces another reinvention of the wheel, because it works.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the Profax clients look at everyone elses products and go 
>>> "Thank god I'm not using that ubiquitous shit." perhaps they are even 
>>> happy to pay for a product that works instead of paying to have it 
>>> get fixed all the time.
>>>
>>> I use delphi because I like pascal and Delphi did do a good job. I 
>>> like firebird because it is simple light and quick. It never said it 
>>> was oracle competition.. and it kicks ass over DBISAM and other small 
>>> light databases. In fact in its class as a lightweight I would say 
>>> that is is "Best of Breed" apples with apples. Perhaps that 
>>> pathological M$ hatred is bleeding into other areas and the delusion 
>>> is in hating a company, but then writing products for their OS's.
>>>
>>> Lastly... Delphi is OO and also non-OO. its each persons choice to 
>>> use 1 or both options. and as for encapsulation... Just because 
>>> delphi has a vcl, doesn't mean that its encapsulated, or even written 
>>> properly, or bug free. Being OO does not automatically define 
>>> encapsulation. If someone gives me a hammer with a split in the shaft 
>>> that cant be glued back together its not reinventing the wheel to 
>>> create a hammer that is better for that job..... Sometimes delphi 
>>> gives you a sledge hammer when what you need is a soft mallet. Thats 
>>> why we are programmers and architects. If you can't use your own 
>>> creativity to decide that something is not right then you are 
>>> basically a jigsaw puzzle maker, or a lego builder... If people 
>>> didn't insist in reinventing things, we wouldn't have decent source 
>>> code, or compilers or OS's. we wouldn't event have computers. without 
>>> developers like Paul and Profax pushing the envelope we wouldn't have 
>>> linux or any of the other things like PostgeSQL which is also just 
>>> another wheel.
>>>
>>> that would be my 3c
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Delphi mailing list
>>> Delphi at ns3.123.co.nz
>>> http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
>>>
>>>
>>
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-- 
Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E)
Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062

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