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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">CC’ing Nancy and Malcom because I think feedback to them is important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Adrian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I will be using Lazarus for an STM32 project I am about to start. Il try to keep in touch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My opinion FWIW</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">.
(I hope I don’t upset anyone)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">First of all I have run a small dev team for 20 years. I have a small team here in NZ, another in Malaysia, and another in Turkey.
From time to time I have also used a Ukraine developer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I am not a great Developer or code guru. Just practical. IM full time in business development, and part time developer. I am not a
very good developer, but manage to make apps that work for the customer. All my work is free of dependencies and run times. I own the IP outright. No Google libraries necessary eh. These days I mostly write prototypes for the .NET and Node JS Guru’s I employ.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personally I consider Delphi to be the most productive environment available for Vertical solution development. If building a good
quality fast performing solution that easily meets the requirements without running into brick walls is your goal, then Delphi is very hard to beat. Nevertheless I am unable to convince any of my developers. There is an Anti Delphi Cult worldwide, but very
much worse in NZ. For some reason in this country looking cool and playing with the latest toys is more important than productivity, efficacy and quality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I get many objections put in the way of progress with Delphi and the bottom line is that the local Kiwi developer will leave rather
than use Delphi. Go figure. Its stupid, and probably reflects the grandiose self opines induced by first the MS Cult, and more recently the Google crap cult.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I stayed with D7 until about 8 years ago. The transition from D7 to XE2 was Traumatic and not helped by the extremely poor quality
of XE2 which haunted me for a further 5 years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">IM just going to write down my grips, and hope that Embarcadero and Code Insight will listen and help us all out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Quality has been extremely poor. There have been many releases that should never have seen the light of day. Re-introduction
of old bugs is common place. In XE2 the language translation tools were not even included.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Documentation has been very poor. Some shocking past help releases. Even today, Delphi documentation is poor. Thank god for
the internet and blogs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Bug central. Is it a myth or is there some reality? We all report bugs but they are never attended to. We are never informed.
Even worse we have to subscribe and pay to get bugs fixed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Subscription model. For us the users it sucks. Every time a new version comes out, one has to build a new machine. This can
take weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Component night mares. For example, if one installs TChart pro, and DevX there is an unsolvable conflict of duplicate resources.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Marketing strategy. Does not seem like there ever was one. While there are some good private tutorials eg Pawel Glowacki,
its often very difficult to locate these on the internet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Total Cost is too high. Delphi Sub 1200$ NZD. DevX 1200 NZD. RB 1000$ NZD. TRichView 500 NZD. TCHart Pro 750 NZD brings the
TCO up to 4650 every time Embarcadero makes a new release. Add onto that the time cost to install and make run all this onto 4 VM’s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">8.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Not enough good tutorials. EG How to build and test Android, Linux, and iOS apps ? How to build a good web site in Delphi?
How to make a good solution framework. How to use standard industry frameworks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">9.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No industry support. I used to ask them to come and do a presentation to my people to help me grow a Delphi Culture. Those
appeals got a zero response. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">ON the plus side, I get a highly productive environment that sees me (a ho hum developer) able to compete with the .NET and JS guru’s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I thank Delphi for making it possible for me to earn a living and grow an international company over all these years. Borland – Embarcadero
and all of the other companies that have hosted Delphi – I really wish you would drop your corporate dreams for a little while and just get passionate about Delphi, and help me to continue using it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tony Blomfield<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Daley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 September 2020 10:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi@listserver.123.net.nz><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Oh oh - Delphi is apparently not good for your CV<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Adrian<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I haven’t looked properly at Lazarus in a couple of years, but what I have noticed recently is that TMS Software who make UI components I rely on, are switching from making VCL/FMX specific components to their own FNC framework which supports
Lazarus+LCL as well as the usual Delphi+VCL/WEB/FMX.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 7/09/2020, at 4:01 PM, Adrian Williams <<a href="mailto:adrian@aerosupport.co.nz">adrian@aerosupport.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
<br>
As a pretty inexperienced Delphi developer, I've been reading the comments about the cost of Delphi upgrades with some interest. I'm still using D7 (no comments please!), mainly due to limited resources in obtaining a current version in my current situation
- it's a long story.<br>
<br>
But I would be interested in some constructive comments (no flame war please!) on how something like Lazarus and FPC stacks up against modern Delphi (Jan noted that open source is improving).<br>
<br>
Thanking you in advance for any helpful contribution.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
Jan Bakuwel wrote on 7.09.2020 3:38 p.m.:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Hi Jeremy, Tony et al,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>It could well be that Delphi is being milked for the value that's left<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>in it and then gets dumped. It's a common strategy in a world where<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>equity firms main focus is on getting something for nothing. The whole<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>perpetual must-upgrade process is of course by design. A "breaking"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>release once every 5 or even 10 years and an active strategy on fixing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>bugs would indeed be very welcome.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>As you say, it is what it is. I'm not holding my breath. Fortunately the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>alternatives are getting better every day, especially open source<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>platforms & frameworks.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Jan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On 7/09/20 10:40 am, Jeremy Coulter wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>As much as I love Delphi, the component installation process has<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>always bugged me, but I just put it down to it just being one of the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>things to deal with. It does mean you have to have a thinking about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>and plan your upgrades, which is a good thing.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>We heard back from Embarcadero and we didnt get very far with our pricing.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>We have renewed out lics because we were running out of time, but I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>suspect that this might be our last upgrade year as well. I cant speak<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>for other teams that use it at my workplace, but when we are getting<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>significant price breaks from M$ its just too hard to look my manager<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>in the eye when she sees the prices.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>And look. I realise that M$ and Emb are at different ends of the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>company size spectrum and M$ can prob. afford to do it, Its just a shame.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Anyway, it is what it is.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Jeremy<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:20 AM Tony Blomfield<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><<a href="mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com">tonyb@precepthealth.com</a> <a href="mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com"><mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Greetings Jeremy, Jan et al.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> I have used Delphi since 1994 and completed at least 100<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> successful projects.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> I agree with your comments below. IT is simply too expensive. I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> use DevX, Report Builder, TChart Pro, and TRichview in addition.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> The cost is simply far too high, and every new release means I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> have to install all of the above which can take up to a week.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> The cost is simply too high.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Delphi lacks the sort of rich functionality that I need, and so I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> have to purchase these other tool sets.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> This could be fixed either by Embarcadero limiting their releases<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> to once every 5 years, or by working closer with these companies<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> closer.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Consequently 10.4 is probably my last subscription to them sadly.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Kind regards<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Tony Blomfield<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Admin: <a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
<b>Adrian Williams</b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"> Dip Aero Engineering</span></b><br>
Maintenance Controller<br>
Aero Support <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><logo.jpg><br>
[t] +64 6 323-3279<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">[m] 021 161 1934<br>
[w] <a href="http://www.aerosupport.co.nz/">www.aerosupport.co.nz</a><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><adrian.vcf>_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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