<div dir="ltr">I think it will be great if Microsoft buy Delphi and free use delphi just like Microsoft purchased Xamarin :-)<div><br></div><div>This way Delphi will be free to use and get a big user base.<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 April 2016 at 05:05, Tony Blomfield <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com" target="_blank">tonyb@precepthealth.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks very much John.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Why and how do you use both ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Bird<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 11 April 2016 4:33 p.m.<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Seattle questions<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">My perspective, and its a partial one. But I work in a house using both XE8/Seattle and C#<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q1 – XE8 is fine (our current production version) and all the comments about Seattle I have heard are good – large projects more stable in particular.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q2
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which is more effective at producing finished product. (Faster to market)</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Both are fast – Delphi compiler and single file deploy is still very hard to beat.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which is more effective at meeting customer’s needs. (Faster customisations)</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Everyones opinion will differ on this</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Solution performance. Which is better. (How snappy is the solution to use)</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Delphi performance is hard to beat. A lot of .NET is also very good these days. But not all.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Security. Which is better. (.NET seems inherently flawed in this respect)</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Delphi does not have zero terminated strings – this has to be a huge advantage as buffer overflows in strings are likely the main security weakness in C family of
products. Runtime languages such as .NET and Java have a spotty reputation too. Security is ultimately much more than the language, but to my eyes Delphi starts with less weakness.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Deployment. Which is easier?
</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Single file vs a folder structure of hundreds of files – and the issue of figuring which files of those files to deploy for a new version.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does the Delphi team sit comfortably alongside the .NET team ?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yup, 3 teams using both. Each team prefers one or other, but uses both. Remember Anders Hejlsberg designed both</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which product fits better with latest business strategies such as IOT and Cloud ?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Everyone’s opinion varies according to what they know and like.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Q3 – WPF - Yes with differences – merits in both</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Q4 – Credibility - refer surveys – latest TIOBE index has Delphi at Number 11, at half to two thirds popularity of C#. Higher than Objective C and Swift still.
Java, C and C++ are still the biggest</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index" title="http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index" target="_blank">http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q5 – IOT/Cloud - Delphi does Web Services, IIS and DBs, and cross compiles to Win32, Win64, OSX, iOS, Android and linux server soon. Others can add more specific cloud points.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q6 - Where - Europe seems strongest bastion of Delphi, but everywhere. Maybe not India – they all want to seem to do SQL Server, C# and Oracle there so they can get jobs in
California.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q7 – Cost - Cost is reasonable to me. If it has to be free looks like Free Pascal is a decent alternative too - never had to look at it myself.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q8 – Support - Mainly good. Generally resolve any issues within days or hours – and its usually the way I’m doing it that is at fault</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Q9 – Developers - Mainly older developers tis true. But only mainly. Some of them think that Delphi may still be going strong when C# fades from popularity – mainly for the
reasons of:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">a – its a good language (Thanks Nicholas Wirth – designed as a good formal teaching language)</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">b – its already cross platform, so competes with the biggies of C and Java with advantages over each.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com" title="tonyb@precepthealth.com" target="_blank">Tony Blomfield</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Monday, April 11, 2016 1:21 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" title="delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">
NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> [DUG] Seattle questions<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I hope the group does not mind me asking a few business oriented questions about Seattle.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I have had Seattle since its original release, but so far have not used it. I have become quite cynical about Delphi as a result of my XE2 experiences.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’d like to hear from anyone that is using Seattle in full production, general thoughts about its features, and productivity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If there is anyone also using .NET? It would be particularly useful if they could compare from a
<u>Business perspective</u> the pro’s and cons. For example.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which is more effective at producing finished product. (Faster to market)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which is more effective at meeting customer’s needs. (Faster customisations)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Solution performance. Which is better. (How snappy is the solution to use)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Security. Which is better. (.NET seems inherently flawed in this respect)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Deployment. Which is easier?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does the Delphi team sit comfortably alongside the .NET team ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which product fits better with latest business strategies such as IOT and Cloud ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does Seattle have any comparative presentation layer to compete with WPF ? Does anyone used it ? Does it support well MVVM ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Market credibility for Delphi is low. Most International Corporate clients have never heard of it, and those that have are very cynical. How to overcome
this marketing hurdle?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">What is the Delphi developers strategy for Cloud deployment ?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Which country has the greatest penetration of Delphi Seattle ? Where are the best developers available ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">How do you feel about the high cost of Delphi compared to VS ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>8.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">How is the support for Delphi ? User groups, and Embarcadero maintenance contract ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>9.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And finally: How is the market availability of Delphi developers these days ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks very much,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tony<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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