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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Sure I appreciate that there are many variables that will determine this. However I remember that once I got stuck in it was a lot easier than I ever imagined. In fact I had at least ten large applications to do this to, and I was very pleasantly surprised to discover it was not so hard so take courage from this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Anyway let’s not take this further as it’s a rather pointless argument.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 30 January 2015 2:32 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] iOS 64bit - Delphi vs Java<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>@Tony,<br><br>Rome wasn't built in a day (though bits of it were). :)<br><br><br>What I mean by that is that the exercise to "migrate away from the BDE" is not a fixed amount of work. It depends on:<br><br> - How many applications you have<br> - How large and complex your application(s) is/are<br> - How your application(s) is/are developed (*)<br> - What you choose to migrate to<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> - How many people you are able/willing to commit to the exercise<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>(* - if there are client data sets already sitting between the code and the query sources then this makes things easier. If not, then things can be significantly more complicated)<br><br>Not to mention the testing.<br><br><br>In some cases the exercise could be "a few days at most". But it could also be "many. many months at least".<br><br>It all depends.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 30 January 2015 at 14:06, Tony Blomfield <<a href="mailto:tonyb@precepthealth.com" target="_blank">tonyb@precepthealth.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree with this. moved away from BDE in 2000 as the writing was on the wall. I have some clients that have old BDE apps (Not from us) and I see nothing but problems since Vista.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>IT is not so difficult to migrate away from BDE. Maybe a few day’s work at most. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 30 January 2015 1:14 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> Russell Belding; NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] iOS 64bit - Delphi vs Java<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>@Russell,<br><br>As well as a desktop DB engine, the BDE was also used for client/server connectivity to SQL Server, Oracle etc. In those cases it is only good luck that the BDE drivers (a.k.a "SQL Links") for those platforms have continued to work or (more likely) that a suitable ODBC driver alternative is/was available which continued to be compatible with the BDE ODBC driver.<br><br>But regardless of whether you are using it as a desktop engine or part of a client/server infrastructure, the BDE has significant problems with modern versions of Windows (by which I mean Vista and later) .<br><br>(See my other post w.r.t ASLR)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 30 January 2015 at 12:36, russell <<a href="mailto:russell@belding.co.nz" target="_blank">russell@belding.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I thought I was the last BDE developer to switch to SQL and particularly a single file database. Maybe not?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For those not familiar with the BDE, it is a multi-file database.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I had three apps deployed in the BDE. It was used because it was free and it worked on my desktop.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>After a while bugs rolled in with file corruptions. It installed well on a single desktop and had problems installing to a network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The BDE did evolve, but not well. Several fixit packages were made by third-parties. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The BDE was, I suppose, beyond repair. Interbase and Firebird had paths to take the BDE into better technology. The Firebird embedded DB engine provided a BDE replacement for a desktop package.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Russell</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 30 January 2015 11:43 a.m.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] iOS 64bit - Delphi vs Java<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>@David, I'm not sure how evolutionary change is relevant to concerns relating to technology having been superceded and abandoned.<br><br>The BDE didn't evolve. It was replaced and abandoned and applications relying on it then experienced difficulties arising from changes in the operating environment.<br><br>It may not be possible to avoid this entirely. But you can hope to reduce the risk by ensuring that your applications employ technology that is an integral part of your operating environment, rather than relying on proprietary components that may be abandoned.<br><br>Particularly if the developer of the proprietary tech has an established record of adopting a "replacement" over "evolution" approach to change in these areas.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 30 January 2015 at 10:38, David Brennan <<a href="mailto:dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz" target="_blank">dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m not sure the change in technologies over time is particularly relevant – if there is a language where technologies such as this haven’t evolved in the last 15 years then that language is probably dead or dying. As you mention .NET has plenty of such examples which have been hung out to die slow deaths.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 30 January 2015 8:46 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] iOS 64bit - Delphi vs Java</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>There is also the use of proprietary technologies that the tool vendor has a habit of changing from time to time. Did you replace the BDE yet ? Did you replace it with DBExpress ? Using 3rd party drivers ? Are they still supported ? When might you be planning to replace DBExpress with FireDAC ? What comes after FireDAC ? Did you ever migrate to CLX ? (and then what?) Have you migrated from VCL to FMX yet ?<br><br>It is hard to avoid the fact that Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero have "form" in this area.<br><br>(Which isn't to say that .net is itself entirely immune from such issues)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 29 January 2015 at 18:32, John Bird <<a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz" target="_blank">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Old yes, well C is older, C++ is about as old, Java is about as old (1996<br>for V1). So there is a rational debate to be had about age.<br><br>Security risk ?<br><br>I would have thought off the top of my head that Delphi does not carry too<br>many obvious security risks:<br>- Relatively few DLL problems as it generally packages everything in the EXE<br>- Relatively immune to buffer overflows if not allocating memory manually or<br>using C-type strings (PChar).<br>- Can one really make a case that Delphi is less secure than Java?<br><br>There are occasional bugs to watch out for eg<br><br><a href="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Way2LKu2pG00Awx4AmVjAGD0At" target="_blank">http://www.coresecurity.com/advisories/delphi-and-c-builder-vcl-library-buffer-overflow</a><br><br>Maybe the corporates mean security risk of an ageing programmer suddenly<br>feeling the need to retire from whatever cause.<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Paul Hectors<br>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:38 PM<br>To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>Subject: Re: [DUG] iOS 64bit<br><br>+1<br><br>My recent experience is that corporates do not like it when you inform them<br>that your application is written in Delphi, it is perceived as old and a<br>security risk. It would be nice if there was a white paper or some material<br>to reassure them.<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi@listserver.123.net.nz</a><br>Admin: <a href="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Way2LKu2pG00Awx4AmVjAGD1Aj" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi@listserver.123.net.nz</a><br>Admin: <a href="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Way2LKu2pG00Awx4AmVjAGD1Aj" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi@listserver.123.net.nz</a><br>Admin: <a href="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Way2LKu2pG00Awx4AmVjAGD1Aj" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D03CAB.B22A1180" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz">delphi@listserver.123.net.nz</a><br>Admin: <a href="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Way2LKu2pG00Awx4AmVjAGD2AN" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz">delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html><img height="1" width="1" alt="" border="0" src="http://mailtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGR4AGplZQV5ZmtzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZmV5AwD0ZwH1Vj.gif">