<div dir="ltr">As you say John, the measure of "good" is a complex issue and may even vary from project to project according to the needs of those projects. Technical proficiency (in any specific area) , mentoring skills or knowledge (OO or again, in whatever area) can all be gained as and when needed but may or may not be relevant to a particular project.<br>
<br>Ultimately it comes down to a combination of knowledge and approach, and the "fit" in these areas that a developer has with the needs of any particular project.<br><br>In my experience, the best developers are the curious and caring ones. By which I don't mean the ones that people raise an eyebrow to/at and who get all teary eyed at a soppy movie, but who - when faced with a problem or a challenge - seek first to fully understand it before rolling up their sleeves and cutting code. And when they do produce code, they care about the clarity and structure of it. "Working code" isn't good enough for such people, it must also have some aesthetic other quality.<div>
<br></div><div>i.m.e more often than not, ugly code turns eventually out to be wrong code. I know when I'm on the right track to a solution because it not only works, but it makes a sort of obvious sense and has a certain elegance that cannot be simply designed in.<br>
<br><div><br></div><div>But, as I say, it's a highly complex area and I don't think there is a simple check list of qualities that categorically identify a "good developer".<br></div><div><br>Which is perhaps why it is also difficult to determine the value of one, resulting in the tendency to place value on more easily measured qualities, such as scarcity, experience (as measured in years), etc etc<br>
<br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 July 2014 11:20, John Bird <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz" target="_blank">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<div>OK that begs a further discussion!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What in your eyes makes a developer “good” as opposed to thinking they are
good – specific qualities please of what the good qualities are. I am
wondering if there are many opinions of what a “good” programmer is which might
explain why some think they are good whilst others think they are not.
What are the more objective measures?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have worked on numerous projects the last few years and seen a lot of
different talents. Some that stick out in my experience are:</div>
<div> </div>
<ul>
<li>Technical proficiency – ie knowing already what is likely to be the best
technology to use to tackle a new problem
</li><li>OO depth. Is it innate or learned? How is it best
learned?
</li><li>Ability to mentor and guide others through existing code</li></ul>
<div>Curious to hear specifics from you as you have the reputation of a Delphi
authority!</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="jeremy.north@gmail.com" href="mailto:jeremy.north@gmail.com" target="_blank">Jeremy North</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 3, 2014 10:23 AM</div><div class="">
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi
List</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Work Wanted in Wellington</div></div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div dir="ltr">I know here (Australia) we would happily pay decent salaries if we
found Delphi developers that were actually good and didn't just *think* they
were good.</div><div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Stefan Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:muellers@orcl-toolbox.com" target="_blank">muellers@orcl-toolbox.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">As
a Swiss Delphi Developer living in New Zealand I find that interesting.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Switzerland
isn’t exactly at the top of my mind when I think about the “value for bucks”
for outsourcing work to – not because you don’t get the quality, but because
salaries there are almost twice what you would have to pay
here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black"><br><br></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black">Kind
regards,<br><br></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black">Stefan
Müller</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black">,<br>R&D
Manager</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><br><br></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";BACKGROUND:red;COLOR:white">ORCL</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">
</span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black">Toolbox
Ltd.</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">
<br></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:black">Auckland,
New Zealand</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:webdings;COLOR:#777777"><br>P</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Arial","sans-serif";COLOR:#777777">
Please consider the environment before printing this email<br><br>This message
is intended for the adresse named above and may contain privileged or
confidential information.<br>If you are not the intended recipient of this
message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose it to
anyone.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0cm;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Tony Blomfield<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 3 July 2014 9:29
a.m.<br><b>To:</b> 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi
List'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Work Wanted in
Wellington<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Gary.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">If
you would like to send the details to me I will have a chat with
them.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Unfortunately
we have had such a bad run with Kiwi Developers we moved our R&D over to
Switzerland last year where we get much more cost effective
results.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Anyway,
I’d like to assess the person myself to see if they are
suitable.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Kind
regards.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d">Tony
Blomfield<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif";COLOR:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#e1e1e1 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0cm;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Gary T. Benner<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 2 July 2014 2:32
p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [DUG] Work Wanted in
Wellington<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">HI
All,</span><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">This just passed in
if anyone can help:</span><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><b><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Permanent
Developer available in Wellington.</span></b><span lang="EN-NZ">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><b><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Experienced Senior
Delphi Developer looking for a permanent role in or around Wellington.
</span></b><span lang="EN-NZ"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><b><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Open to remote
work. Also open to learning a new language if needed. Experienced in picking
up code from others and looking after legacy systems as well as new
development.</span></b><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><b><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Also experienced
as a Development Manager and Product Management.</span></b><span lang="EN-NZ">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Anyone with an
opportunity can email me at <a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz" target="_blank">gary@benner.co.nz</a> and I'll pass it on.</span><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">cheers</span><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">Gary</span><span lang="EN-NZ"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-FAMILY:"MS Sans Serif"">List
Admin</span><span lang="EN-NZ"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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Benner </span><span lang="EN-NZ" style="FONT-SIZE:7.5pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Helvetica","sans-serif";COLOR:gray">MNZCS
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