<div dir="ltr">Hi Xander,<div><br></div><div>You are right. :-)</div><div><br></div><div>The only issue with Xamarin is it is quite dear to use visual studio with a xamarin plugin for android, ios for professional coding. Pay each year around US$1,000 per platform for visual studio support per developer. If you want to develop android, ios both in visual studio, the fee is around US$2,000 with some discount. If you want to develop ios, you need to get a virtual machine to run mac os or get a mac machine. And you have to pay around US$100 each year to Apple for a developer license.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you don't mind to develop in Xamarin studio, it is quite cheap.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>Leigh</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 May 2014 14:59, Xander van der Merwe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:xandervdm@gmail.com" target="_blank">xandervdm@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Haven't followed RemObjects for a while, I know they showed great promise some years ago and -perhaps still do, but I would personally look very closely at <a href="http://www.xamarin.com" target="_blank">www.xamarin.com</a> for developing iOS and Android applications if I had succh a requirement and did not want to use the native tools for those respective platforms. Xamarin is now being "helped/supported" by MS to ensure their tools are good, which also helps and you can build those directly inside Visual Studio (if you are so inclined of course)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="145ca5305718612c__MailOriginal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 5 May 2014 2:41 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:russell@belding.co.nz" target="_blank">russell@belding.co.nz</a>; NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Auckland Event Details</div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">@David:<br>
<br>
Your prescription that the approach must support single source is arbitrary.
Heck, not even Embarcadero achieved this goal completely satisfactorily,
so by that criteria FireMonkey itself is a failure.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">RemObjects approach
is the more robust one.<br>
<br>
Rather than trying to pretend that platform differences can be abstracted away
or reduced to lowest common denominator (as if the various user communities of
the various platforms were not themselves making their choices precisely
because of those differences, in many cases), those differences should be
embraced and the developers empowered to take full advantage of them in order
to provide the best solutions possible for <b>each</b> platform, not limited to
providing a solution that can be deployed on <b>all</b> platforms.<br>
<br>
What should Embarcadero have done ?<br>
<br>
Simple. Instead of tossing Prism into the long grass, they should have
brought Elements into the fold. Kept Delphi + VCL as their Win32 solution
with Elements as their .NET and mobile platforms offering.<br>
<br>
But, frankly, as an Elements user who has previously experienced
Borland/Inprise/Codegear/Embarcadero's product management, development,
marketing and pricing at first hand, I am actually <b>very</b> relieved that
they didn't (and suspect that RemObjects themselves might have resisted any
attempt to do so). ;)<br>
<br>
The very fact that an outfit such as RemObjects have both the technical nouse
and capacity to deliver something like Elements whilst Embarcadero, with far
more resources at their disposal, are left buying up other people's
technologies and trying to create a marketing message around them whilst
rushing out poor quality releases (XE6 Hotfix 1 was out before the ink had
dried on the XE6 release EULA!) to keep the money mill churning, should tell
you everything you need to know about Delphi's future.<br>
<br>
If RemObjects can do it, and if Embarcadero are everything that their
supporters crack them up to be, then Embarcadero should have been able to deliver
their own "Elements", especially given that they would have been able
to focus exclusively on a Pascal solution, if they so chose, without the added
distraction of a C# front end.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">@Leigh....</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes,
Oxygene/Hydrogene (hereafter: Elements) when targetting Java, produces Java
byte code. Just like the vast majority of Android code out there (with
the exception of games - the one type of app that the NativeActivity support in
Android was only ever intended for). Oh, and the FireMonkey apps.<br>
<br>
One thing this means is that unlike FireMonkey, your target platform is not
confined only to Android and the Java environment provided there. For
example, if you really wanted to, you could use Elements to create an Eclipse
plug-in.<br>
<br>
Elements can produce Java code, hence Elements supports all Java based
platforms using all of the capabilities that those Java platforms supports
because - to all intents and purposes - when compiling for Java, Elements <b>is</b>
Java. Just with a different language front-end.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As such, yes, it
runs at Java speed, just like all the other Java code on those Java based
devices, Android or otherwise. But it does so without having to drag in a
bloated runtime and a custom UI rendering engine (and that's incorporated into
EVERY FireMonkey app, btw). Your apps take full advantage of the device
capabilities.<br>
<br>
That includes, for example, ART, which is the Android technology that allows
Java based Android apps to be installed as pre-compiled, native code binaries.
Just like FireMonkey apps, but without the embedded bloatware, and with
the ability to run on any Android device (that support ART, or indeed of course
all the ones that don''t).<br>
<br>
<br>
But equally, when compiling for Cocoa, Elements is an LLVM compiler. All
of the same advantages apply - you have complete, platform native access to the
platform with all of the benefits that accrue. Whether that is Cocoa (OS
X) or CocoaTouch (iOS).<br>
<br>
Similarly, Elements for .NET... any .NET based platform is available to you, be
that Windows.NET, Windows RT or Windows Phone.<br>
<br>
<br>
How is the .NET support in FireMonkey these days, by the way ? ;)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5 May 2014
12:59, russell <<a href="mailto:russell@belding.co.nz" target="_blank">russell@belding.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Always interesting to read strong
opinions … even when presented as facts and focusing on a few topics.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The analysis looks plausible. I cannot
assess it well as I write for a niche community and RAD Studio serves me
fairly well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Russell</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span><a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 5 May 2014 11:13 a.m.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Auckland Event Details</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What makes less sense is the way that they
added support for those platforms. You are right to highlight the manner
in which they have managed to tick boxes. Unfortunately it is <b>purely</b>
an exercise in ticking boxes. Far less useful as a solid basis for
continuing to be able to <b>keep</b> those boxes ticked.<br>
<br>
Delphi was always a niche product. Despite the marketing, their
cross-platform solution is <b>not</b> Delphi for "iOS/OS X/Android"
(and it painfully clearly is not Delphi for .NET, let alone WinRT or WinPhone).
It is "Delphi for FireMonkey", with the ability to deploy to
any platform that FireMonkey manages to cajole a semblance of support for
within the constraints of what the approach allows.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">i.e. you cannot build true Android solutions
using FireMonkey because the way that FireMonkey works rules out certain
capabilities of that platform. Similarly your FireMonkey Android apps
will not benefit from ART. Sure, your FireMonkey app is "native
code", but is also bogged down by the non-platform native frameworks
required to make even "Hello World"possible, so whilst true platform
native apps gain all the benefits that that platform delivers, FireMonkey
remains stuck in it's own world.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">i.e. FireMonkey created a niche within a
niche.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Having attracted the interest of Delphi
developers to the platforms that FireMonkey ticks the boxes for, many of those
developers will quickly realise the limits and look instead at the
alternatives, at which point they realise just how far behind Delphi has fallen
over the years while Embarcadero wasted their time on the Smoking Chimp.<br>
<br>
As for the renewed interest in developing the VCL, this can be seen as a return
to core value, or it could be seen as a belated recognition that FireMonkey is
not in fact the secure future for Delphi/Embarcadero that it was supposed to
be, and worst of all, without any viable strategy for supporting the platform
on which that core value rests - i.e. the latest and future versions of Windows
- even that core value is now at risk.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
For myself, I now use a combination of RemObjects Elements and Xcode for most
of my work. Delphi is now very much a legacy platform.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5 May 2014 10:46, David Brennan <<a href="mailto:dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz" target="_blank">dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It was a good seminar IMO. I understand
why Embarcadero have decided to spend so much time adding support for OS-X, iOS
and Android, at some point we may even take advantage of it. More importantly
though I’m glad they seem to have realised that now they have ticked those
boxes they need to return to address quality across the product. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I just hope that XE7 will continue that
trend so that the Delphi IDE and executables continue to improve in speed and
robustness. I’m also hoping that XE7 will see a big push to make Code Insight
bulletproof (or as bullet proof as such a thing can be, given that if you screw
your syntax up completely midway through a big change it is always going to
struggle, but it would be nice if it returned to fully operational once you
tidy things up a bit!).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">David.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span><a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeremy Coulter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 5 May 2014 10:10 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Auckland Event Details</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah let us know hen its done. We didnt
attend the presentation for various reasons, although it would have be good, so
am looking forward to hearing what Marco had to say.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jeremy</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Alister
Christie <<a href="mailto:alister@salespartner.co.nz" target="_blank">alister@salespartner.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I managed to spend a number of hours with
Marco after the presentation, and have about an hour and a quarter recorded,
which I will make available after Marco has reviewed it. It was great
talking with him, it seems that Embarcadero made a good choice appointing him
Product Manager for Rad Studio.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alister </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><br clear="all">
</span></p>
<pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Alister Christie</span></pre><pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Computers for People</span></pre><pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266</span></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.salespartner.co.nz" target="_blank">http://www.salespartner.co.nz</a></pre><pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Follow us on Twitter </span><a href="http://twitter.com/salespartner" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/salespartner</a></pre>
<pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">PO Box 13085</span></pre><pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Johnsonville</span></pre><pre><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Wellington</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Gary Benner
<<a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz" target="_blank">gary@benner.co.nz</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">HI All,<br>
<br>
Sorry this is a little late but just got back from a trip overseas. <br>
<br>
To endorse Alister's comment, great opportunity to meet Marco.<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
<br>
Gary<br>
<span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please see below details for the RAD XE6 Launch. Please will you forward this
email invitation to members of the NZDUD to register/attend the event. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Date and Venue:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Friday, 02 May: Auckland</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Venue: Rydges Auckland - 59 Federal Street Cnr Kingston Street, Auckland
1010, New Zealand</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Time: 8.30am Registrations, 9:00am – 12:00pm </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://forms.embarcadero.com/AP14Q2NZDeveloperDirectLIVE" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">http://forms.embarcadero.com/AP14Q2NZDeveloperDirectLIVE</span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">The
event will be hosted by Damien Bootsma with special guest-speaker, Marco Cantu,
RAD Studio Product Manager, global luminary & author of over a dozen books
on Delphi. This event is not to be missed, so register NOW, as spaces are
limited! </span></p>
<p style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Be
amongst the first to see live previews of RAD Studio XE6 and all of the great
new technology, with the latest enhancements to the VCL and more. <br>
Here's a glimpse of what is in store:</span></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" width="460" style="width:345pt">
<tbody><tr>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Empowering your VCL codebase and developer
productivity</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20" style="width:15pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</td>
<td width="440" style="width:330pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">• Give Your VCL apps a new
look-and-feel with improved VCL Styling <br>
• Introducing Win 7/8 taskbar buttons</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Database, integration and scalable
services with RAD Studio XE6</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20" style="width:15pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</td>
<td width="440" style="width:330pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">• Core Database Features Improvements<br>
• New FireDAC Database Explorer and more<br>
• Working with JSON and XML<br>
• Building scalable and secure DataSnap services</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Embrace and Extend Your Mobile and VCL
applications</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20" style="width:15pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</td>
<td width="440" style="width:330pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">• App Tethering<br>
• Not reinventing the wheel with new BAAS Client components</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">"Turning on" to mobile and The
FM Application Platform</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20" style="width:15pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</td>
<td width="440" style="width:330pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">• Introducing Android support in
C++Builder XE6<br>
• App Monetization with Advertising and In-App Purchases</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Evolution within a revolution: Summary and
Q&A</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If you are an
application developer, technologist or development team leader and interested
in modernising your VCL apps & extending your applications to mobile
devices for your customers, then this event is for you!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Kind regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Mike</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p><br></div></div></div>
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