<div dir="ltr">The test is designed to check the foundation of their knowledge and not some niche area of knowledge we require or they might have. We are happy to teach them specifics for our requirements.<div><br></div><div>
It would be very hard to give someone that wasn't familiar with the code base anything other than the most trivial change.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Leigh Wanstead <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leigh.wanstead@gmail.com" target="_blank">leigh.wanstead@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I am not sure about all these test usefulness. Why not ask the job seeker to do some real job which you plan to hire them to do? I usually knows the people skill by looking at the code they wrote which is no more than a page.<div>
<br></div><div>Just my 2 cents</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Leigh</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On 31 July 2013 12:26, Jeremy North <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jeremy.north@gmail.com" target="_blank">jeremy.north@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I do a verbal (during the interview) and written test. The verbal are things like explain the differences between the visibility specifiers, what is notification used for, where is it implemented (what type). If they get the notification stuff (there are some other questions about it) I ask if they know what design pattern is used for the implementation of the notification system. <div>
<br></div><div>The written test has some short answer questions basically prodding the knowledge of the RTL and VCL/FireMonkey (we are using FireMonkey on a project atm). Then we have a larger design question where we give a specification and ask them to detail classes to be written to implement the spec. It gives us a big idea of their OO and design skills. We also ask thread specific questions.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>The written test is about an hour. (we leave for 10 mins reading and pop back for any questions). Test is written, no PC (although next time we might supply a PC).</div><div>The verbal I have about 10 questions, depending on how they answer this can be cut down or added to. If they can't explain the difference in visibility, the verbal question time is very short <g>. They are short answer usually (depending on the candidate trying to "wing it") so doesn't take long.</div>
<div><br></div><div>All up, the interview would be about 1.5 hrs.</div><div><br></div><div>I'd never ask a brain teaser or puzzle question either, in my eyes, that just makes you look like a tosser - leave them for the Monday morning meeting.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div> </div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:06 AM, David O'Brien <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Dave@iccs.co.nz" target="_blank">Dave@iccs.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-NZ" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Just as a matter of interest, can you give an example of one of these tests?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Brennan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 31 July 2013 11:58 a.m.</span></p><div><br>
<b>To:</b> 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Average Salary<u></u><u></u></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Aye. We have what we consider to be a reasonably easy first test and we only interview people with at least an A- average from University and yet more than
half still fail the test. Admittedly we are looking for 100% correct but the test is simple enough that this shouldn’t be too high a bar, the answer is less than a dozen logic and arithmetic expressions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">After the first test we have a harder second test which has a few subtleties which we don’t expect anyone to get in a test situation, this provides a better
gauge than the first test which is basically a boolean gate, pass or fail.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Back to Steve’s question, you have to qualify what you mean as it depends on experience. A graduate developer worth hiring probably gets 45-55k in their first
year I would say, and then goes up from there based on how they perform.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">David.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a> [<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz" target="_blank">mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeremy North<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 31 July 2013 11:23 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Average Salary<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you are looking to hire, I suggest you be prepared to pay for a good one. Make sure you have a good test though, my experience is that there are a lot of "guru", "expert", "senior" Delphi developers out there that are absolutely useless.
Drag and drop code zombies.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The last time we hired (about 15 months ago) we sifted through about 50 (sometimes questionable) resumes and interviewed 8. Three of those walked out of the test at various stages (one read it and left - said we wouldn't like the answer
he would give WTF!) and the test wasn't super hard - I wrote it :-) (we were looking to fill a senior level position). It isn't always about completing the test, but having a candidate acknowledge they don't know something is 400% better than them trying to
talk around it and guess.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At the end of the day, I don't consider any of the people I work with "average" developers. I wouldn't like to work with average people.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Steve Peacocke <<a href="mailto:steve@peacocke.net" target="_blank">steve@peacocke.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Everyone,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was just wondering, what is the average salary for a permanent Delphi developer out there in the marketplace these days?<span style="color:#888888"><br clear="all">
<span><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><br>
Steve Peacocke<br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B64%20220%20612-611" target="_blank">+64 220 612-611</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><a href="http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/steve-peacocke/1/a06/489" target="_blank">Linkedin Professional Profile</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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