<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I always expected whatever Embarcadero delivered at this stage for OSX to be too unpolished for serious use so I’m not surprised there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>With Firemonkey I was interested, excited even, because it struck me that when/if they polish it then the end product would be both viable and offer some advantages that a Kylix style new VCL never would have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve read a few of your blog posts Jolyon and it does seem that they have only half done Firemonkey properly, some things (such as the CreateForm) which should have been rebooted were kept in the old style but with broken metaphors and usage. There is probably room for them to continue to tidy such stuff up and in any case that particular example, while ugly, doesn’t really affect usability once you know about it. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So I guess the question is, what architectural or underlying problems do you see with FIremonkey which would prevent them from polishing it up and making it a properly viable cross platform product?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>P.S. As background to this I am also considering whether we upgrade to XE2, although for me the main dilemma is that FireMonkey isn’t ready for primetime yet which means we’ll likely need XE3 for that, in which case financially we are rather better off just waiting and buying XE3 new rather than upgrading to XE2 and then again XE3. XE2 plus software assurance is possibly cheaper but upgrading your IDE every year is hard work, I really think SA should be more like 20-25% instead of 30% if they want everyone on it. Anyway that is another topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@listserver.123.net.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:08 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Delphi Update<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, and yes. :)<br><br>I had been off the upgrade train since D7 but XE2 prompted me to get back into the harness (to mix some metaphors).<br><br>My primary interest was in the iOS and (future) Android support with only passing interest in OS X development, but - and read into this what you will - I have since downloaded and installed X Code for iOS/OS X and Eclipse and the Android SDK.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Delphi + VCL is still unbeatable when it comes to Win32 (and now Win64) development, but for OS X, iOS and Android, I am increasingly convinced that "FireMonkey" was a mistake and that a core cross-platform VCL supported by platform native extensions for the visual part of the VCL (along with language extensions if required - a la the FPC approach to OS X, for example. The same approach taken with Windows support in Delphi originally of course, with the declarative approach to Windows message handling and the "automated" keyword (albeit that is now deprecated)) would have been the right way to go.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So I'd say yes - if you want to stay current with Delphi there is value in doing so, and for some things you may find FireMonkey is a viable solution, but for iOS / Android development my own view is that the native tool sets for those respective platforms currently - sadly - represent the most viable long term choices until a real contender for the title of "Delphi for iOS/Android" comes along.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Being able to coax the likes of Prism and Delphi into emitting code that happily runs on iOS/Android may make for some interesting technical challenges and some sideshow fun projects, but those approaches are destined to forever be on the fringes and the margins of those platforms, imho.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Some would say that Delphi too exists on the fringes of the Windows eco system, although it found itself drifting there rather than coming in at the fringes from the outset. And this too may become more of an issue with the apparent ground-shift coming in Windows 8, but the extent of that on the likes of "traditional" WinXX development tools is still largely yet to be seen.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>+0.02<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 15 November 2011 01:55, Charlie <<a href="mailto:kerscher@bellsouth.net">kerscher@bellsouth.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>First thanks for the suggestions for webhosting.<br>Secondly, I haven't updated Delphi since RAD Studio 2007 and so if I<br>don't update by 12/31 and want the current version afterwards I won't be<br>eligible for an update. The only customer that I had has just gone out<br>of business. I really like Delphi. I really don't know if I'll ever have<br>another customer. I've always wanted to be a "programmer" but became a<br>jack of all trades in order to satisfy the needs of my customers.<br>It seems to me that the future is iPhones, iPads and such. So is<br>updating Delphi prudent? Or is now the time to persue other options?<br>Thank you,<br><span style='color:#888888'>Charlie<br>_______________________________________________<br>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@listserver.123.net.nz">delphi@listserver.123.net.nz</a><br>Admin: <a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz">delphi-request@listserver.123.net.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>