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<span style=
"color:#FF0000 "><b><span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif ">[Reply]</span></b></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">Hi Guys,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">For most apps that we here in NZ would deal with, PHP works fast enough. Two things can affect this:</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">1. Use a PHP accelerator that caches the compiled PHP - so you still have the convenience of a scripting language, with the speed of a compiled one.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">Having used Delphi to create web apps since last century ( or was that last millenia ) I find PHP is just as fast.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">2. Put emphasis also on how your application accesses the resources of the server ... minimise file accesses etc .... put databases on another server ... or at least a different HDD .....</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">To reiterate what has, or may have been said before, PHP is simple, easy to program, and from my experience, a practical move for a Delphi programmer.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">BUT, in moving to web apps from standard PC programming, there is a lot more to it, css, html, javascript, asynchronous vs synchronous design, and understanding the systems involved (web servers, caching servers, tcp/ip .....) . Good luck to you all!</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">cheers</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">Gary</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 "> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#000000 ">A</span><span style=
"color:#FF0000 "><b>t 19:15 on 6/06/2011 you wrote </b></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I don't know !? - I had a quick look at your website and clicked a bit</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>around . but didn't encountered any errors. </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>On what page was the problem?</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Regards,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Stefan</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>From: delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] On</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Behalf Of Rohit Gupta</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 7:22 AM</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Hi Stefan,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I havent implemented error logs yet.. But Google Analytics is telling me</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>strange things. Either you encountered a bug or you tried to break it ?</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Which :-) </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I am interested in knowing what happened in either case. </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Its not totally robust yet. But it will be before google indexes it in a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>few weeks time.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>On 5/06/2011 5:51 p.m., Stefan Mueller wrote: </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>There are plenty of benchmarks out there showing that PHP isn't exactly a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>race horse:</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-languages-are-faste</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>st.php</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>But that said, php is plenty fast enough to easily handle a couple of</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>*thousand webpage requests per minute* on a decent web server. That's</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>usually fast enough for most websites . and if you are some big-outfit that</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>has to scale well beyond that limit then you could just loadbalance between</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>multiple servers and/or take facebooks hiphop project and cross compile your</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>PHP to much faster C-code (https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php).</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I choose C# over PHP for other much more important reasons - speed isn't the</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>issue. </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Stefan</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>From: delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] On</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Behalf Of Rohit Gupta</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:07 PM</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I dont find PHP slow at all.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>On 5/06/2011 2:20 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Paul. A very informative reply thanks. Gary also suggested PHP but I have</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>always discounted it as slow and cumbersome. However reading through some of</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>the blurb suggests that it may gave come a long way in recent years.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I'm very familiar with HTML and somewhat familiar with small JavaScript</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>pieces (MS-CRM mods). So these languages don't really phase me but the</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>thought of learning another language like Ruby was robbing me of sleep. I</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>have about a dozen languages under my belt but anyone is really only fully</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>conversant in up to 2. I remember when I was 6 years old I spoke 3 spoken</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>languages fluently but can only manage a little French, some small German</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>and still learning Chinese, but Gaelic has totally disappeared from my</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>vocabulary. Its the same with programming, without regular use, other</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>languages tend to leave the mind (we leak memory all over the place).</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>However it does look like PHP might be an interesting prospect. I was</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>seriously looking at C# as well but wanted something I could use sooner than</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>the learning curve would require. </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Thanks again. I'll take a good strong look over the next few weeks. </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Steve</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>On 5/06/2011, at 12:32 PM, Paul A Norman <mailto:paul.a.norman@gmail.com></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">><paul.a.norman@gmail.com> wrote:</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Hi Steve,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Approaching it from the delphi/pascal orientation first...(not meaning</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>pascal server side--and that is possible as well) ...</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>You'd find much in Delphi for Php that is very familiar.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>It is built on top of an opensource framework " VCL for PHP", and</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>you'd probably appreciate E's familiar delphi IDE approach. When E</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>bought up the front end the guy who wrote it went across with it - so</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>it has been well backed technically in its development.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Plus you can stand Lazarus on top of the opensource part and use it</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>for the GUI parts.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://donaldshimoda.blogspot.com/2008/09/php-toolkit-disponible.html</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Pascal_and_PHP</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"With the PHP Toolkit you can also convert your Delphi and Lazarus</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>form design files (.dfm/.lfm) to VCL for PHP files, as well as</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>configure Lazarus for use as a PHP IDE."</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Using quality frameworks front and back end generally provides for</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>decent testing and error reporting.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Also if you want to look at php frameworks like Delphi for php, as an</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>approach, Prado (desgined heavily around Delphi - turboPascal</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>concepts)</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://www.pradosoft.com/ is highly spoken of.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Also a derivative project http://www.yiiframework.com/</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"The Fast, Secure and Professional PHP Framework</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"Yii is a high-performance PHP framework best for developing Web 2.0</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>applications.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"Yii comes with rich features: MVC, DAO/ActiveRecord, I18N/L10N,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>caching, authentication and role-based access control, scaffolding,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>testing, etc. It can reduce your development time significantly."</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Further you can escape the confusion that has been mentioned here over</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>html and css using a web framework / JavaScript library like jQuery</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>(even now used and contributed to by Microsoft)</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"jQuery is a new kind of JavaScript Library.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"jQuery is a fast and concise JavaScript Library that simplifies HTML</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>document traversing, event handling, animating, and Ajax interactions</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>for rapid web development. jQuery is designed to change the way that</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>you write JavaScript.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"The jQuery framework handles nearly ALL cross browser issues, and</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>provides somewhat of a strong object orientated approach to the whole</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>matter. You even just add visual components to the project in code."</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Using jQuery type frameworks as front ends and php framework(s) as a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>back end for business logic is very similar in thought processes to</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>many necessary things you may have encountered in using Delphi over</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>the years.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Real-time testing on a local LAN apache is just that!</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>You can still dive in to the html css js and of course the php as</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>needed, but framework programming the web is the surest path to a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>consistent low hassle approach.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time saving.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>People are doing whole cross-platform desktop client side programs,</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>mobile applications, Apple Linux MS etc etc like this now - see</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Titanium for an all in approach based on web-kit.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://www.appcelerator.com/</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Once you scratch below the surface of ECMA (JavaScript) you'll find a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>different(!) but reasonably robust object system with protoyping etc.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>These sites from amongst many are really useful for orientation on</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>JavaScript:</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>and</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://howtonode.org/object-graphs</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>JavaScript has escaped the browser! There are even whole setups writen</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>in JavaScript now -- see http://nodejs.org/</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>"Node's goal is to provide an easy way to build scalable network</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>programs. In the "hello world" web server example above, many client</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>connections can be handled concurrently. Node tells the operating</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>system (through epoll, kqueue, /dev/poll, or select) that it should be</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>notified when a new connection is made, and then it goes to sleep. If</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>someone new connects, then it executes the callback. Each connection</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>is only a small heap allocation."</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>And newer releases of php offer self serving capabilities as well.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>So it is an interesting time to be involved and to be (re-)entering the</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>arena!</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>If you just want simple drag and drop with a framework, Delphi for</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Php or Lazarus with phpo toolkit, will do most of that for you, plus</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>you can extend things..</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Here is an early blurb of Delphi for Php at the outset.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://www.delphi-php.net/2007/03/</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Paul</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>On 3 June 2011 16:35, Steve Peacocke <mailto:steve@peacocke.net></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">><steve@peacocke.net> wrote:</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Friday question (or Can of Worms)</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Hey guys, I'm looking at getting into serious web development. I used to do</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>this a number of years ago with standard Delphi 6 at that time.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I have Delphi 7</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>I've been looking seriously at Ruby on Rails but that would mean learning a</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>whole new language and process</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>There has been a lot of talk of the validity of using IntraWeb with Delphi.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others use? Should I bite</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to D2011 or something else?</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Steve</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">> </span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>database 6182 (20110605) __________</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>http://www.eset.com</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">></span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>_______________________________________________</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</span></span>
<p>
<span style=
"font-family:MS Sans Serif "><span style=
"color:#008000 ">>Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe</span></span><p>
<font face=arial size = 1 color = Navy><font color=gray face = "helvetica,verdana,arial" size = 1><br>
<font size=2 color="black">Gary Benner </font>MNZCS ITCP<br>
Information Technology Certified Professional <br>
<a HREF="http://www.onlearn.co.nz" style="text-decoration:none; color:blue">Onlearn Limited</a> - Online Learning Hosting & Support, Training & Content Development<br>
<a HREF="http://www.123.net.nz" style="text-decoration:none; color:blue">123 Internet Limited</a> - Managed Web Hosting, Virtualisation, High Availability Systems & Cluster Technologies<br>
<a HREF="http://www.semantic.co.nz" style="text-decoration:none; color:teal">Semantic Limited</a> - Software Development & Systems Design, Online Education, e-Commerce<br>
<a HREF="http://www.diwa.co.nz" style="text-decoration:none; color:teal">Disaster Warning Systems Limited</a> - Public Emergency Warning and Communication Systems<br>
<b>Mob:</b> 021 966 992<br>
<b>DDI:</b> +64 7 543 1206<br>
<b>Email:</b> <a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz" >gary@benner.co.nz</a><br>
<b>Skype:</b> garybenner<br>
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