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My 2 cents worth for someone looking at Web Dev now<br>
<br>
Options<br>
1. Go with the mindless horde (M$, C# .NET)<br>
2. Go with the alternative mindless horde (ROR)<br>
3. Go for the Money (Java)<br>
4. Go alternative (PHP)<br>
<br>
I never used Delphi for PHP but highly recommend Nusphere PHPed as a
Delphi like IDE and with 5+ you can write delphi like OO code<br>
There are numerous 'frameworks' you can use but as functionality is
moving back to the client AJAX and jQuery are probably your best bet
whilst HTML5 takes hold<br>
<br>
Neven <br>
<br>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">There are plenty of benchmarks out there showing that
PHP isn’t exactly a race horse:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php">http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html">http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">But that said, php is plenty fast enough to easily
handle a couple of <b>*thousand webpage requests per
minute*</b> on a decent web server. That’s usually fast
enough for most websites … and if you are some big-outfit
that has to scale well beyond that limit then you could just
loadbalance between multiple servers and/or take facebooks
hiphop project and cross compile your PHP to much faster
C-code (</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php">https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php</a></span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">I choose C# over PHP for other much more important
reasons - speed isn’t the issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: navy;"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";">Stefan</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(88,
87, 87);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rohit
Gupta<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Web development<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I dont find PHP slow at all.<br>
<br>
On 5/06/2011 2:20 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Paul. A very informative reply thanks. Gary also suggested PHP but I have always discounted it as slow and cumbersome. However reading through some of the blurb suggests that it may gave come a long way in recent years.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>I'm very familiar with HTML and somewhat familiar with small JavaScript pieces (MS-CRM mods). So these languages don't really phase me but the thought of learning another language like Ruby was robbing me of sleep. I have about a dozen languages under my belt but anyone is really only fully conversant in up to 2. I remember when I was 6 years old I spoke 3 spoken languages fluently but can only manage a little French, some small German and still learning Chinese, but Gaelic has totally disappeared from my vocabulary. Its the same with programming, without regular use, other languages tend to leave the mind (we leak memory all over the place).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>However it does look like PHP might be an interesting prospect. I was seriously looking at C# as well but wanted something I could use sooner than the learning curve would require. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks again. I'll take a good strong look over the next few weeks. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Steve<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On 5/06/2011, at 12:32 PM, Paul A Norman <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.a.norman@gmail.com"><paul.a.norman@gmail.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre>Hi Steve,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Approaching it from the delphi/pascal orientation first...(not meaning<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pascal server side--and that is possible as well) ...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>You'd find much in Delphi for Php that is very familiar.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>It is built on top of an opensource framework " VCL for PHP", and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>you'd probably appreciate E's familiar delphi IDE approach. When E<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>bought up the front end the guy who wrote it went across with it - so<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>it has been well backed technically in its development.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Plus you can stand Lazarus on top of the opensource part and use it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>for the GUI parts.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://donaldshimoda.blogspot.com/2008/09/php-toolkit-disponible.html">http://donaldshimoda.blogspot.com/2008/09/php-toolkit-disponible.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Pascal_and_PHP">http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Pascal_and_PHP</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"With the PHP Toolkit you can also convert your Delphi and Lazarus<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>form design files (.dfm/.lfm) to VCL for PHP files, as well as<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>configure Lazarus for use as a PHP IDE."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Using quality frameworks front and back end generally provides for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>decent testing and error reporting.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Also if you want to look at php frameworks like Delphi for php, as an<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>approach, Prado (desgined heavily around Delphi - turboPascal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>concepts)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.pradosoft.com/">http://www.pradosoft.com/</a> is highly spoken of.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Also a derivative project <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.yiiframework.com/">http://www.yiiframework.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"The Fast, Secure and Professional PHP Framework<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"Yii is a high-performance PHP framework best for developing Web 2.0<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>applications.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"Yii comes with rich features: MVC, DAO/ActiveRecord, I18N/L10N,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>caching, authentication and role-based access control, scaffolding,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>testing, etc. It can reduce your development time significantly."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Further you can escape the confusion that has been mentioned here over<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>html and css using a web framework / JavaScript library like jQuery<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(even now used and contributed to by Microsoft)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"jQuery is a new kind of JavaScript Library.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"jQuery is a fast and concise JavaScript Library that simplifies HTML<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>document traversing, event handling, animating, and Ajax interactions<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>for rapid web development. jQuery is designed to change the way that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>you write JavaScript.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"The jQuery framework handles nearly ALL cross browser issues, and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>provides somewhat of a strong object orientated approach to the whole<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>matter. You even just add visual components to the project in code."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Using jQuery type frameworks as front ends and php framework(s) as a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>back end for business logic is very similar in thought processes to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>many necessary things you may have encountered in using Delphi over<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>the years.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Real-time testing on a local LAN apache is just that!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>You can still dive in to the html css js and of course the php as<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>needed, but framework programming the web is the surest path to a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>consistent low hassle approach.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Even just jQuery and doing your own php is very effective and time saving.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>People are doing whole cross-platform desktop client side programs,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mobile applications, Apple Linux MS etc etc like this now - see<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Titanium for an all in approach based on web-kit.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.appcelerator.com/">http://www.appcelerator.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Once you scratch below the surface of ECMA (JavaScript) you'll find a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>different(!) but reasonably robust object system with protoyping etc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>These sites from amongst many are really useful for orientation on JavaScript:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/">http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://howtonode.org/object-graphs">http://howtonode.org/object-graphs</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>JavaScript has escaped the browser! There are even whole setups writen<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>in JavaScript now -- see <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://nodejs.org/">http://nodejs.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"Node's goal is to provide an easy way to build scalable network<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>programs. In the "hello world" web server example above, many client<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>connections can be handled concurrently. Node tells the operating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>system (through epoll, kqueue, /dev/poll, or select) that it should be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>notified when a new connection is made, and then it goes to sleep. If<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>someone new connects, then it executes the callback. Each connection<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>is only a small heap allocation."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>And newer releases of php offer self serving capabilities as well.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>So it is an interesting time to be involved and to be (re-)entering the arena!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>If you just want simple drag and drop with a framework, Delphi for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Php or Lazarus with phpo toolkit, will do most of that for you, plus<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>you can extend things..<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Here is an early blurb of Delphi for Php at the outset.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.delphi-php.net/2007/03/">http://www.delphi-php.net/2007/03/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Paul<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On 3 June 2011 16:35, Steve Peacocke <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:steve@peacocke.net"><steve@peacocke.net></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre>Friday question (or Can of Worms)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Hey guys, I'm looking at getting into serious web development. I used to do this a number of years ago with standard Delphi 6 at that time.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>I have Delphi 7<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>I've been looking seriously at Ruby on Rails but that would mean learning a whole new language and process<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>There has been a lot of talk of the validity of using IntraWeb with Delphi.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to D2011 or something else?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Steve<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<b>Rohit Gupta</b><br>
B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET<br>
Technical Manager<br>
Computer Fanatics Ltd<br>
<br>
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