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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV>As I understand many of the Android applications are written in a Google
version of Java – they wrote their own clean room version of the Java Virtual
Machine called Dalvik which was optimised for low power consumption and
memory use (register based). But standard Java with the Android
libraries can be compiled to run on Android.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The examples on the DelphiDroid project used C# and VS to read the DFM and
create much (but not all of the program) as Java code.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would guess a Delphi cross compiler is likely to aim at whatever VM and
libraries runs commonly on Android. I would imagine that loss of
native code is a disadvantage, but portability over lots of processors and
handsets would be easier, and that the Dalvik virtual machine is likely very
well optimised for Android anyway so it would be a shrewd way to do
it. Also compiling or converting Delphi to Java code is likely to be
not too difficult a job either.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As a further reason for not going to native code, the whole original reason
that Unix and linux were able to run on so much hardware was that as much of the
OS as possible was not written in machine code – its all in C and libraries and
has a huge number of API ‘s for C and other languages. I think
pretty much only parts of device drivers have to be in machine code, and that a
C compiler has to be available for a new processor. This is another reason
(on top of being free and tuned and debugged for 40 years) that the unix/linux
kernel became universally available on everything from phones to
supercomputers. Android Dalvik applications run no doubt as a
layer on the linux kernel calling the standard Unix/linux system calls so there
is likely not much effort in making a Dalvik Virtual Machine for new phone
architectures either.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As a aside - Not using the standard Java Virtual Machine has caused a law
suit between Oracle and Google on the grounds that if they don’t use the JVM
from Sun/Oracle they are violating the terms of use. However Java is
supposed to be open sourced so most observers think that Oracle is simply trying
to get some revenue from Android – they are hoping Google will settle with
damages in order to not hold up Android. Typical behaviour
apparently from Larry Ellison who’s motto is “not only does Oracle have to win,
everyone else has to lose”</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Most commentators think they have as much of a case as SCO suing Novell
over ownership of parts of linux, or Microsoft suing linux users over supposed
and unspecified intellectual property thefts – ie the chance of a snowball in a
very hot place, and that Google did carefully write their Dalvik as a clean room
version – ie they didn’t use JVM code. Anyway Google shrewdly is not
making any money from selling Android anyway – it gives it away – it makes ifs
money from the services running on Android.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It would be similar to Embarcadero suing the Free Pascal project which has
a Delphi compatible compiler if some large firm had started using that for
commercial applications rather than buying the Delphi compiler. Not
worth suing an open source, but worth suing the firm using it for a commercial
product in the spirit of all good patent trolls. Or they might
sue the Free Pascal project if they had got first to a 64-bit compiler or a
cross to iPhone or Android compiler as blocking opportunities for their
commercial products. Most even loyal Delphi programmers would likely
say “serves them (Embarcadero/Borland) right for not getting there first
that open source stole their thunder”. Wait - Hold on! -
I think that so far Free Pascal is in fact ahead of Embarcadero in those
areas...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">John</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Well,
that’s exactly my point... “native” means compiled to machine code, in which
case you need to say code for *<B>which</B>* machine...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">For
a more concrete example: The Delphi compiler does not target the “IBM PC”
– it targets Intel x86.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
also targets <B>Windows</B> on x86, but let us imagine that Windows was still NT
and that NT still supported ALPHA hardware. Delphi “targets” Windows, but
it does not produce ALPHA executables since it only targets
x86.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To
say that Delphi targets Windows is not sufficient – you have to say “Windows
x86”.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So
when you say “targets Android”, this doesn’t appear to be sufficient information
to be a reliable indication of any meaningful, intent, just highly speculative
spit-balling (“Ya know, with this new compiler architecture we (or “they”) could
support Android...”).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
would be interested to know where you heard the speculation... the source can be
significant in ascertaining the reliability of some messages...
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US> delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Alister Christie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 30 November 2010
17:10<BR><B>To:</B> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [DUG] DelphiDroid<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>From what I heard it will be native - although all I've heard
are rumors - certainly no statement of intent.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P><PRE>Alister Christie<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Computers for People<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><A href="http://www.salespartner.co.nz">http://www.salespartner.co.nz</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>PO Box 13085<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Johnsonville<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Wellington <o:p></o:p></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>On 29/11/2010 4:19 p.m., Jolyon Smith wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Is that Android
1.5? 1.6? 2.1? 2.2? Or will it be 3.0?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Apart from that,
isn’t a “target” for a compiler a bit more than just an OS/platform/framework
... ?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If Delphi is to
“target” Android then it must target the CPU architectures that Android itself
runs on (with iPhone the distinction is blurred since only one phone hardware
platform runs the OS – iPhone the OS <B><I><U>is</U></I></B> iPhone the
hardware, to intents and purposes).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Android might be
running on (currently) ARM-Cortex A7, A8, or A9 (as far as I can tell – I
am not an Android owner or otherwise particularly interested in Android, so this
is based on a few mins with my learned friend, Mr Google </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US> <A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A> [<A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Alister Christie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 30 November 2010
14:11<BR><B>To:</B> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [DUG] DelphiDroid</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>My understanding is that both Android and iPhone are being
actively experimented with as targets for the compiler. We'll probably
hear more once we have OS/X, Win64 and Linux support, which I suspect that it
would be at last 2 years away<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P><PRE>Alister Christie<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Computers for People<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><A href="http://www.salespartner.co.nz">http://www.salespartner.co.nz</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>PO Box 13085<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Johnsonville<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Wellington <o:p></o:p></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>On 29/11/2010 1:40 p.m., David Brennan wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I think Jolyon is
right.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The difference
between a proof of concept (which is basically what the guy has now) and a
robust tool which handles the majority of Delphi features and libraries is
enormous. Several orders of magnitude sounds about right to me (meaning 100-1000
times more difficult, or even more).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I agree with the
general principle though that being able to build for Android (and/or iPhone and
others) would be great. However I think the only way it could really be done in
a decent way is by Embarcadero continuing to extend the back end compiler to
support more and more target platforms. They have made a few references in
recent times which suggest they hope to do this but only time will
tell.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cheers,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">David.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US> <A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A> [<A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jeremy Coulter<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 29 November 2010 1:23
p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [DUG] Company closing</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>you should download it and make
it do more then :-)<BR><BR>jeremy<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jolyon Smith <<A
href="mailto:jsmith@deltics.co.nz">jsmith@deltics.co.nz</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Is it a compiler? Technically I mean - I'd call it a
translator. :)<BR><BR>I wonder how far it can go though, beyond the simple
examples I mean.<BR><BR>Translating a push button and a call to ShowMessage() is
one thing. Being<BR>able to translate a complex application with all the
libraries that Android<BR>must support strikes me as a number of orders of
magnitude more complex.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</A>]
On<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Behalf Of Alister
Christie<BR>Sent: Monday, 29 November 2010 12:39<BR>To: NZ Borland Developers
Group - Delphi List<BR>Subject: Re: [DUG] Company closing<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Interestingly the compiler is written in C#<BR><BR>Alister
Christie<BR>Computers for People<BR>Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266<BR><A
href="http://www.salespartner.co.nz"
target=_blank>http://www.salespartner.co.nz</A><BR>PO Box
13085<BR>Johnsonville<BR>Wellington<BR><BR><BR>On 29/11/2010 12:08 p.m., John
Bird wrote:<BR>><BR>?<A
href="http://lenniedevilliers.blogspot.com/2010/09/delphi-for-android-sneak-previ%0Aew.html"
target=_blank>http://lenniedevilliers.blogspot.com/2010/09/delphi-for-android-sneak-previ<BR>ew.html</A><BR>><BR>>
Just checked out the DelphiDroid - not sure what state its at but simple<BR>>
examples are at least working - see a sneak peek video at the
above<BR>address.<BR>> Says been tested with "Delphi 6.0, 7.0, 2005, 2006 and
2010."<BR>><BR>> This is exactly the sort of tools we need - why does
Embarcadero not jump<BR>> onto this asap???<BR>><BR>><BR>>
John<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NZ
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