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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>I’m running out of colours! Maroon then.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 22 October 2010 10:38 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Delphi Specials<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adding green. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Brennan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 22 October 2010 09:55<br>
<b>To:</b> 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Delphi Specials<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#5F497A'>My comments in a lovely purple. ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jolyon Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 22 October 2010 8:53 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Delphi Specials<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Aw nuts
you are just being a stirrer.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Why is pointing out facts considered stirring?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#5F497A'>You obviously have pretty strong feelings about it Jolyon but
you jumped on John pretty hard and if I was him I would certainly feel you were
being deliberately antagonistic. You didn’t just point out facts, you had an
axe to grind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>Well, as did John I’d say. </span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>Possibly a fair point. ;-).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>What I am
saying is do not punish Borland and Embarcadero for making a product that was reliable
and well usable for 10+ years. Reward them by spending a small
amount of money to keep them in business. And into the bargain enjoy a much
better version of Delphi.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>How about Embarcadero punishing their customers for not having
provided compelling reasons to upgrade?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#5F497A'>You believe the former and refuse to accept that perhaps part of
the reason is that v5 was so good.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>How on earth do you reach that conclusion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>The original poster</span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'> hadn’t upgraded since Delphi
4 – by definition they haven’t felt the need to upgrade. Arguing about
whether they were given reasons to upgrade is meaningless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>It isn’t really worth arguing about but it was you who bought up
the ‘not having provided compelling reasons to upgrade’, not me. So it seemed a
pertinent point that Embarcadero have provided many reasons to upgrade BUT Delphi
5 was good enough that you could happily ignore them. Even Wallace acknowledges
that he might get benefits from the new versions but he personally doesn’t
spend enough time doing Delphi development to justify the cost and learning a
new environment. And implicit in his position is that Delphi 5 still works very
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>And I simply pointed out that John’s suggestion that they
upgrade NOW was to ignore the fact that Embarcadero have slammed the door on
that option for the original poster. They no longer have the choice of
upgrading, they are now faced with having to buy a NEW USER license, from
scratch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>Agreed. But then their current version is 12 years old. At what
point does it stop being reasonable to expect cheap upgrades to the latest
version? Personally I think 12 years is well past that point but I realise others
may have different opinions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>Conversely I think the 3 year/version rubber-banding that
Embarcadero are going with is a little too short. I can understand where they
are coming from, most software companies really want their customers on
subscriptions these days and a reasonably short valid upgrade period fits that
BUT to match the more stringent upgrade criteria I think they should further
reduce the Upgrade pricing if you are upgrading to the same product – if they
want to treat it as more of a subscription then they should move to more
subscription like upgrade pricing. I guess their current promotion has done
just that with Delphi XE Pro in a limited context so maybe they are
experimenting with the idea. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>Compare and contrast with purchasing a valid license for Delphi
and then having to go around the houses and jump through numerous hoops in
order for it to acknowledge that yes indeed I am entitled to “activate” and use
the software I have bought and paid for.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>We haven’t really had any problems. Sounds like others have
which is obviously bad.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#5F497A'>Borland blew it in a major way around Delphi 8/2005, no question
about that and I can understand punishing them for it. </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>And more recently (at the risk of getting sidetracked)
Embarcadero have blown it again (imho) with addressing Unicode and 64-bit
separately, creating TWO significant barriers to upgraders and also failing to
make good on indications of 64-bit delivery and introducing new priorities and
changing roadmaps and product direction without updating those roadmaps until
after the fact.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>Agreed, I would prefer they had done things differently (I think
Embarcadero may well feel the same about the Unicode issue by now). Neither was
a disaster on anywhere near the scale of Delphi 8/2005 though, just decisions I
disagree with and which I think were bad business decisions from their point of
view. I am confident they would have made noticeably more sales post Delphi
2007 if Delphi 2009-XE could compile both Unicode and Ansi versions. We’re a
good example (we are stuck at Delphi 2007 for now).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#5F497A'>But at some point it becomes cutting off your nose to spite your
face... anyone who develops seriously in Delphi needs Delphi to be a viable
commercial product and that means being willing to pony up for some money
occasionally in my opinion.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>You saw the part where I complain that they do not provide an
option for me to spend the money that is worth it to me?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#00B050'>I WANT to spend money with Embarcadero, but they refuse to make
available a product that suits the use to which I wish to put it at a price
that is reasonable and that I can afford when set alongside all of the other
demands on my financial resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#632423'>Yeah. Both you and Wallace are talking about a non or semi
commercial situation. I think for someone in business the pricing isn’t too bad
but they don’t cover the non commercial market well at all. I don’t think they
know how to provide a version that is useful enough for people to use it yet
locked down enough that it doesn’t cannabilise their commercial sales. Their
competitors that provide free versions either don’t need the full revenue
stream (eg Microsoft) or aren’t commercial projects (eg Eclipse). Doesn’t mean
they shouldn’t find a solution, in fact it is probably critical. Just means
there may not be an easy solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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