Gary.. I fully agree that cheap or free access to the language tools to students, or any "Learner" is key to building the success of a development language.. They will then want to take those skills to any company or work driven environment.. I think a full blown free version is the best way to go, with a compiler built in limitation on the EXE execution time... as you say.. 30 minutes or so.. <div>
<br></div><div>This also lets people build demonstration applications that can be produced on request to potential employers.</div><div><br></div><div>When I first learnt pascal and ansi c, i was 14, and bought a copy of Turbo Pascal 4 for about $40 and got all my training material via a couple of Advanced Algorithm books, Database Construction books.. (meaning make your own DB and indexes.. Lol ) and a bunch of bulletin board tutorials.. Without this "Free*" resource.. life as a 14 year old would have been impossible<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Gary T. Benner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz">gary@benner.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<span style="color:#FF0000"><b><span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif">[Reply]</span></b></span>
<p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">HI all,</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">As a Delphi teacher for some many years I found the Turbos irrelevant, as components are a fundamental part of good OO programming, and it was impossible to teach Delphi properly without new components being able to be created and installed in the IDE.</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">Personally I'd like to see a $25 fee for Academic Delphi - get's the Students into the system - and that the compiler be limited to what they could do ... eg. a nag screen at the start of any application not started within Delphi, and something like a 30 min time limit for application execution. .. etc</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">Otherwise the Delphi should run as per the real thing.</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">Students will get cracked versions otherwise, and they can be very creative at that.</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">HTH</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">Gary</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#000000">A</span><span style="color:#FF0000"><b>t 12:59 on 22/09/2009 you wrote </b></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>To : <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>CC : </span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>From: John Bird, <a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz" target="_blank">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Content Type: text/plain</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Attached: </span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>If Turbo versions of Delphi are not available, it is a great idea to have </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>them as PR to get students getting free versions to learn on. Without </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Embarcadero losing money on commercial sales.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Interested to hear others ideas how such editions could work.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>My ideas:</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Preventing installation of components as in the past is simple - but some </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>large scale commercial programs could still be made, so I think it needs </span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>more.</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Either disabling printing if included (Rave reports) or all printing </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>carries a water mark "Student Edition - not for commercial use".</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-All program windows contains some signature eg "Student edition" in the </span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>title bar</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-some smart restrictions on what can be produced.......eg cheap or free DB </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>licences limit to often only 5 connections. Maybe limit units to 4000 </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>lines of code, or forms to 30 components total, and listviews and grids to </span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>200 lines,</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Programs might only run for 1 hour maximum and exit with a reminder screen, </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>or will not run at all after say 1-2 years.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Alternatively charge strictly on a usage basis - eg start with $20 free </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>credit. Every compile takes 10cents of credit, every debugger run takes 20 </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>cents off, editing takes off 1 cent per hour. When credit is used up IDE </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>stops working, and you have to uninstall and reinstall. (Transaction based </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>charging like this is a favourite of mine, incorporated into some of my </span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>programs).</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Expiry date on IDE, have to uninstall and reinstall to get more.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Student edition could cost say $25 or be free, depending on how restricted.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>A combination of more than one of these would mean commercial developers </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>would still get the real versions, and be not too mean on students.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Choose what is good to limit, and let them otherwise have a fully functional </span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>version - in reality they won't be writing very large programs, so that is </span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>what to limit.</span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Personally I would favour the combination of</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-Watermarks on printing</span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-limits on grid size and number of components on a form</span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>-programs run for 1 hour maximum.</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>John </span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span>
</p><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>_______________________________________________</span></span>
</p><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list</span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a></span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Admin: <a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a></span></span>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">>Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi-request@delphi.org.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe</span></span>
</div></div><p>
<span style="font-family:MS Sans Serif"><span style="color:#008000">></span></span></p><p>
<font face="arial" size="1" color="Navy"><font color="gray" face="helvetica,verdana,arial" size="1"><br><br>
<font size="2" color="black">Gary Benner </font></font></font></p><font face="arial" size="1" color="Navy"><font color="gray" face="helvetica,verdana,arial" size="1"><hr><br>
<a href="http://www.semantic.co.nz" style="text-decoration:none;color:blue" target="_blank">Semantic Limited</a> - Online Education, e-Commerce, Software Development & Systems Design<br><br>
<a href="http://www.123.net.nz" style="text-decoration:none;color:blue" target="_blank">123 Internet Limited</a> - Managed Web Hosting, Virtualisation, High Availability Systems & Cluster Technologies<br><br>
<b>Mob:</b> 021 966 992<br><br>
<b>DDI:</b> +64 7 543 1206<br><br>
<b>Email:</b> <a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz" target="_blank">gary@benner.co.nz</a><br><br>
<b>Skype:</b> garybenner<br><br>
</font><br>
<br>
Ref#: 41006<br>
<br>
</font><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>
</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p>
<p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list<br>
Post: <a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
Admin: <a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a><br>
Unsubscribe: send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@delphi.org.nz">delphi-request@delphi.org.nz</a> with Subject: unsubscribe<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kyley Harris<br>Harris Software<br>
+64-21-671-821<br>
</div>