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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>FWIW - I think the Academic market is lost to Pascal now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Academia these days is not as much about learning principles (for
which Pascal and therefore Delphi is ideally suited) as much as preparing
drones for the business world, in which case Delphi – much as we might wish it
weren’t so – simply is not <u>as</u> relevant as C#, Java or .NET etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BUT – if there were to be an Academic Edition (I think there
already is), it should not be constrained by the entirely separate and
different needs of a personal, part-time hobbyist user (and neither should a
hobbyist edition struggle or contort itself to accommodate the needs of a
student).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>e.g. students should learn about refactorings and model driven
development, but a hobbyist really doesn’t need these things (sure we’d like
them for free, but we don’t *<b>need</b>* them – our time *<b>isn’t</b>* money).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Plus an Academic license should normally be attached to the seat
in the institution, not the individual occupying that seat in a given semester,
so pricing of an Academic license is more likely to be a volume deal where the
student isn’t actually paying for the license (directly – although it will likely
be in the course fees to an extent) as opposed to pricing of a
hobbyist/community edition which specifically targets and needs to appeal to
the pocket of an individual user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Kyley Harris<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 22 September 2009 1:33 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] Budget/Turbo editions of Delphi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Gary.. I fully agree that cheap or free access to the
language tools to students, or any "Learner" is key to building the
success of a development language.. They will then want to take those skills to
any company or work driven environment.. I think a full blown free version is
the best way to go, with a compiler built in limitation on the EXE execution
time... as you say.. 30 minutes or so.. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This also lets people build demonstration applications that
can be produced on request to potential employers.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>When I first learnt pascal and
ansi c, i was 14, and bought a copy of Turbo Pascal 4 for about $40 and got all
my training material via a couple of Advanced Algorithm books, Database
Construction books.. (meaning make your own DB and indexes.. Lol ) and a bunch
of bulletin board tutorials.. Without this "Free*" resource.. life as
a 14 year old would have been impossible<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Gary T. Benner <<a
href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz">gary@benner.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";
color:red'>[Reply]</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>HI all,</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>As a Delphi
teacher for some many years I found the Turbos irrelevant, as components are a
fundamental part of good OO programming, and it was impossible to teach Delphi
properly without new components being able to be created and installed in the
IDE.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>Personally I'd
like to see a $25 fee for Academic Delphi - get's the Students into the system
- and that the compiler be limited to what they could do ... eg. a nag screen
at the start of any application not started within Delphi, and something like a
30 min time limit for application execution. .. etc</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>Otherwise the
Delphi should run as per the real thing.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>Students will
get cracked versions otherwise, and they can be very creative at that.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>HTH</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>Gary</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:black'>A</span><b><span
style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:red'>t 12:59 on 22/09/2009 you
wrote </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>To : <a
href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>CC : </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>From: John
Bird, <a href="mailto:johnkbird@paradise.net.nz" target="_blank">johnkbird@paradise.net.nz</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Content
Type: text/plain</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Attached: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>If
Turbo versions of Delphi are not available, it is a great idea to have </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>them
as PR to get students getting free versions to learn on. Without </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Embarcadero
losing money on commercial sales.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Interested
to hear others ideas how such editions could work.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>My ideas:</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Preventing
installation of components as in the past is simple - but some </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>large
scale commercial programs could still be made, so I think it needs </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>more.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Either
disabling printing if included (Rave reports) or all printing </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>carries
a water mark "Student Edition - not for commercial use".</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-All
program windows contains some signature eg "Student edition" in the </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>title bar</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-some
smart restrictions on what can be produced.......eg cheap or free DB </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>licences
limit to often only 5 connections. Maybe limit units to 4000 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>lines
of code, or forms to 30 components total, and listviews and grids to </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>200 lines,</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Programs
might only run for 1 hour maximum and exit with a reminder screen, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>or
will not run at all after say 1-2 years.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Alternatively
charge strictly on a usage basis - eg start with $20 free </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>credit.
Every compile takes 10cents of credit, every debugger run takes 20 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>cents
off, editing takes off 1 cent per hour. When credit is used up IDE </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>stops
working, and you have to uninstall and reinstall. (Transaction based </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>charging
like this is a favourite of mine, incorporated into some of my </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>programs).</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Expiry
date on IDE, have to uninstall and reinstall to get more.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Student
edition could cost say $25 or be free, depending on how restricted.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>A
combination of more than one of these would mean commercial developers </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>would
still get the real versions, and be not too mean on students.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Choose
what is good to limit, and let them otherwise have a fully functional </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>version
- in reality they won't be writing very large programs, so that is </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>what to
limit.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Personally
I would favour the combination of</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-Watermarks
on printing</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-limits
on grid size and number of components on a form</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>-programs
run for 1 hour maximum.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>John </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>_______________________________________________</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>NZ
Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Post:
<a href="mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi@delphi.org.nz</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Admin:
<a href="http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi" target="_blank">http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>>Unsubscribe:
send an email to <a href="mailto:delphi-request@delphi.org.nz" target="_blank">delphi-request@delphi.org.nz</a>
with Subject: unsubscribe</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style='font-family:"MS Sans Serif","serif";color:green'>></span><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:gray'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Gary Benner </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:gray'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
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<a href="http://www.semantic.co.nz" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:
none'>Semantic Limited</span></a> - Online Education, e-Commerce, Software
Development & Systems Design<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.123.net.nz" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:
none'>123 Internet Limited</span></a> - Managed Web Hosting, Virtualisation,
High Availability Systems & Cluster Technologies<br>
<br>
<b>Mob:</b> 021 966 992<br>
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<b>DDI:</b> +64 7 543 1206<br>
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<b>Email:</b> <a href="mailto:gary@benner.co.nz" target="_blank">gary@benner.co.nz</a><br>
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<b>Skype:</b> garybenner<br>
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color:navy'><br>
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-- <br>
Kyley Harris<br>
Harris Software<br>
+64-21-671-821<o:p></o:p></p>
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