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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I agree Delphi 8 and Delphi 2005 were mistakes and arguably not
fit for purpose. I also agree that no one (ie Borland or Embarcadero) has made
good on that. Excluding them from the upgrade path is very poor, and arguably
users on those versions should be offered a cheaper upgrade if anything.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However I still don’t think software houses can afford to
offer open ended bug fixes in the general case. Damage control on an
abomination like Delphi 8/2005 is one thing but saying anyone using an old
version of your product should get bug fixes forever more at no cost is just
not a sustainable business model. I don’t know of any software companies
that will do it – as some have pointed out even Microsoft won’t do
it beyond a certain point and they have a far more profitable business than any
other software company.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>David.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul A Norman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 20 September 2009 5:53 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>"open ended bug fixes
" 2009/9/19 David Brennan <<a href="mailto:dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz">dugdavid@dbsolutions.co.nz</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Dear David,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>When we talk about D8 and especially 2005 we are not talking
about minor matters.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Others in the past have listed what does not work, the list
is not too cool.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>What needs to be realised here is that there is a very big
difference between "bugs" than may be a little annoying to some one,
and things that are actually fundamental to the application's operation. They
are not "bugs" but I believe misdemeanors :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If a 'bug' actually stops the application operating as it
shuld in any significant way it may in my opinion fall fowl of Lord Deninnigs
famous judgement onn when is a car bought under contract, not a car? (More
below)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Developers need to keep to very high standard in this, if
for no other reason than that if commercial resentent levels rise to high in
the broader community with developer's attitudes, regualtion will follow. It is
already being considered in some quarters.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regulation will not be nice.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Seek legal advice on any and all of the following points of
my personal opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>At present the general provisions regulating the industry I
believe are the Fair Trading Act, Common Law of Torts and a few Absolute
liabilities.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Absolute liabilities are things contained in Statute or if
you like also those Universal moral principles of duty of care.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>For example if one designs a computer application say for
the operation of lifts, and people are trapped and injured or even die becasue
it is later determined by a competent tribunal that one failed to develop the
application using the genreal standards of care and diligence that a developer
should use, it is even possible in some juristdictions that the developer could
be found guilty of culpible homicide - man slaughter!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In NZ the equivalent commonly known scenario was where
previously mechanics have been found guilty for things that they missed during
WOF inspections of vehicles where injury or death has resulted. Not
becasue they mised the items but because it could be demonstrated that they had
not exercised in this case an absolute duty of care in their work.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The standard is not always simpolt that there is a problem,
but the nature of the problem.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In software ddevelopment I would submit that if your
client wants to use your software for an uninteded or unenvisaged purpose at
the time of design brief, and this breaks your application, then the developoer
maybe should rightly feel indignent that the problem is laid at their
door. And maybe could expect to charge out to make the new use of the
application work.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If however a period of time elapses before it becomes
apparent that some proscribed feature of the software as brieefed and paid for
does not function properly, than no matter what periods of testing or due
diligence my be inserted in the contract the developoer may find himself liable
for soemthing, and the amount may increase with time the more he fights it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You can not always contract out of established law.
Often you can not at all contract out of law.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The reason is that one is subject to the Sovereign power of
the jurisdiction you are operating in. And contracts made under that
jurisdiction can not contravene the determinations of that jurisdiction. Unless
there is specific provision to do os.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In other words in NZ there are provisoins of the Fair
Trading Act that can not be contracted out of.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As a matter of public policy, this helps prevent any
form of commercial or other duress during treating to contract.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Now be careful in saying that a licanse is not the same as
ownership.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Truly it is not, but if you take money for it, more and more
legislators and courts all over the world are starting to say that there
are responsabilites on the person who receives the money to give value.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In common law there are lessor duties of care that people
can rely on even in an contract situation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Lord Denig found that even though the man who bought a car
was bound bby contract to pay for the car, because the car was defiecent in
several ways from what a reasonible man might expect a car to be and do --
legally it was not a car! So he granted the man relief.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If your application fails to meet certain requiremetns of
your contract formal or implied, or shows that you have not designed it with
the reasonible care that a resaonible person should do so as a developer, then
you may get a nasty surprise if you don;t want to put it right!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I wholoehearetadly belive that D.2005 is headed that
way. Even the service pack three doesn't work on some people's machines
as a known issue! It doesn't on my main one. F1 gives no help at all let
alone the inadequate help it gives on the other machine I sue. I can not
cut copy ot paste in the Form Designer .. I could go on! but I won't bore you,
hte issues are well established else where.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So where does E satnd? In my view they bought a franchise -
and nneed to fix the elkements of the franchise that they want to make money
out of. Does E have any liability to licensees under the franchise?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Legal, moral, practical? Yes beyond doubt.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>But most importantly commonsense wise they have obligations.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We are people who want to get on with each other. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>E and their staff want to feel that they are acting in a
caring way towards their clients - just as people.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Saying it is business and therefore different rules
apply, doesn't cut it any more - its casued too many problems and is a failed
philosophy.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Now when you buy a franchise or equivalent - you can't say I
am only responsible for the bits I like, or which will give us a qucik cash
fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You need to act responsabily accross the board and deal with
things as they are, not as they would wish them to be.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Isn't the good price E is rumoured to have got D for, going
to reflect the issues of D that B had to concede sale price over?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>And therefore does that not mean that E have been
compensated already for the D.8 D.2005 liability? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So come on E you've had your financial compensation for the
D.8 D.2005 problems, pass some on and help us up!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>And as for the D.3 -> upgrade issue surely here again
commonsense comes into play ... Developers are people don't be too quick to
play with their minds like this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The franchise has certain groundrules we bought our licenses
on certain understandings, you bought the franchise on those understandings,
change it to improve the experiences of the Licenses hoders not to remove
provisions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Put some real incentive in there, and as well leave the
dooor open!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Seek legal advice on any and all of the above points of
my personal opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>paul<o:p></o:p></p>
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