<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><div>Todd, you are correct.. My meaning is that I feel this is why the companies are being so tight about things.. more as a way to stop theft, than to take ownership.. Personally.. I've never signed any such agreement. Normally they back down when I rationalize it to them, or I walk away.</div>
<div><br></div>"Hi Kyley<br><div class="im" style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80); "><br>> I have contracted in a firm before where there was a clear case of an<br>> employee "holding back" at work and not exhibiting the full potential of<br>
> their skills and salary.. at the same time they discovered he was<br>> developing applications different from work but for the same sector.. in<br>> their mind these products should rightly have been introduced into the<br>
> companies product... Especially if you are employed as someone who is<br>> supposed to guide the direction of the software.<br><br></div>You're talking about a situation where there is a direct conflict of<br>
interest. That is quite a bit different from an employer demanding<br>ownership of any intellectual property you dream up or develop outside<br>work hours.</span><br>"<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Todd Martin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://todd.martin.nz">todd.martin.nz</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi Kyley<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> I have contracted in a firm before where there was a clear case of an<br>
> employee "holding back" at work and not exhibiting the full potential of<br>
> their skills and salary.. at the same time they discovered he was<br>
> developing applications different from work but for the same sector.. in<br>
> their mind these products should rightly have been introduced into the<br>
> companies product... Especially if you are employed as someone who is<br>
> supposed to guide the direction of the software.<br>
<br>
</div>You're talking about a situation where there is a direct conflict of<br>
interest. That is quite a bit different from an employer demanding<br>
ownership of any intellectual property you dream up or develop outside<br>
work hours.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
>.. if<br>
> they want to own everything I do during my employment then they can<br>
> double the salary or include a profit share system on any personal designs.<br>
<br>
</div>Agreed.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> And lasty.. if you are using any company owned assets in the development<br>
> of personal gain then that is really not Kosha.. you should be using<br>
> your own licenses, computers etc etc..<br>
<br>
</div>Agreed.<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> I mean.. if you were a plumber.. and you didn't own a van or tools, but<br>
> they were provided by your company.. and after hours you went and did<br>
> plumbing using their van, their gas, their tools, and you pocketed the<br>
> cash do you really think that its a reasonable thing? Software is no<br>
> different.. give and take.<br>
<br>
</div>Todd.<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> Get used to it.<br>
><br>
> As I stated, it is fairly common now (not always, please don't take<br>
> this as generalisation) that unless the application was already<br>
> defined, it belongs to the company. Companies are looking more to<br>
> the fact they employ you for your design and invention skills,<br>
> therefore they figure they own those skills and anything that comes<br>
> from it.<br>
><br>
> Steve Peacocke<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Todd Martin <<a href="http://todd.martin.nz" target="_blank">todd.martin.nz</a><br>
</div><div class="im">> <<a href="http://todd.martin.nz" target="_blank">http://todd.martin.nz</a>>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a> <<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Steve<br>
><br>
> That is an absolute outrage. Anyone worth their salt would never<br>
> sign<br>
> such a contract.<br>
><br>
> Todd.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > This is fairly common over here for programmers to have to<br>
> sign away all<br>
> > applications programmed at home.<br>
> ><br>
> > Steve Peacocke<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Leigh Wanstead<br>
> <<a href="mailto:leighw@softtech.co.nz">leighw@softtech.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:leighw@softtech.co.nz">leighw@softtech.co.nz</a>><br>
</div>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:leighw@softtech.co.nz">leighw@softtech.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:leighw@softtech.co.nz">leighw@softtech.co.nz</a>>>><br>
<div class="im">> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Hi Steve,<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I thought what you described is for the no knowledge<br>
> required job<br>
> > i.e. waiter etc. It happens in Delphi?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Have a nice day<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Regards<br>
> ><br>
> > Leigh<br>
> ><br>
> > *From:* <a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>>><br>
</div>> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
<div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz">delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz</a>>>] *On Behalf Of *Steve<br>
> Peacocke<br>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 17 September 2009 10:03 a.m.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List<br>
> > *Subject:* Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming<br>
> from Embarcadero<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > There have been several instances, very real over here,<br>
> where the<br>
> > employer can hire a new employee and legally keep them on<br>
> trial for<br>
> > up to a year, then simply fire them without explanation<br>
> and without<br>
> > any legal issues at all, rather than pay contract rates.<br>
> In one<br>
> > instance, the employer was able to fire people within<br>
> their 3 months<br>
> > and hire another employee from another agency, rather than<br>
> pay the<br>
> > agency fees.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
> --<br>
</div><div class="im">> Kyley Harris<br>
> Harris Software<br>
> +64-21-671-821<br>
><br>
><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kyley Harris<br>Harris Software<br>+64-21-671-821<br>