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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Interesting comments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I can see the reason for people wanting CF
support but I can also see the reasons CodeGear haven’t really jumped on
board. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Personally I’m much more interested
in seeing Delphi Win32 becoming more stable and finally getting some new language/compiler
features (eg generics) than I am to see CF support, especially since Codegear
are never going to be able to match Microsoft in CF.NET support (since
Microsoft own and are constantly moving the goalposts in that area).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would also MUCH rather see Codegear spend
their time implementing into Delphi Win32 the ability to access .NET assemblies
as directly as possible (without the current DLL/ActiveX steps). If they can do
that then I will be much happier as our customers or partners develop/buy their
own .NET assemblies for ordering/accounting systems or whatever that we need to
interact with.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>David.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-bounces@delphi.org.nz] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Eric A<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 8 October 2007 4:19
p.m.<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> delphi@delphi.org.nz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [DUG] Rad Studio
Criticism</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Jeremy,<br>
<br>
Some thoughts as to why CodeGear aren't actively embracing .NET CF ...<br>
<br>
1) I used Visual Studio and the Compact Framework (versions 1 and 2 with all
their service pack incarnations!) extensively last year and I'd have to say
that the .NET Compact Framework is not a great development environment to work
under. Deployment of the CF applications is not straightforward, in fact
its a right pain if you want to generate a "click once" install CD,
unless you invest a considerable amount of time to set it up properly yourself.<br>
<br>
2) To produce the Compact Framework the full .NET Framework had to be
"crippled" to reduce its size to fit mobile devices. The result
is that to do some simple things under Windows Mobile 2003 with .NET CF (eg.
playing sound) one had to do a "PInvoke" of unmanaged code to call a
C++ dll. (you might as well have just used embedded C++!!).<br>
<br>
3) The framework is still in state of rapid change (find the Microsoft document
that talks about "% churn" in various classes of the framework - some
up to 60%!). Sure there are improvements but its a real effort to keep up
with changes.<br>
<br>
4) If you're working with Bluetooth then MS only support their own Bluetooth
stack (another MS reinvent the wheel...). Sure you can download the
source for accessing the Broadcom stack but its in C++ so you've got to
recompile (and adjust the source) to compile under Visual Studio and then write
a wrapper to get a .NET accessible stack.<br>
<br>
5) Support for the Compact Framework, unless you splash out and pay the $$ for
the MSDN subscription, is really only via the MS CF forum. Responses are
slow at best - I've waited for over a week in some cases, only to find that it
was an "undocumented feature" in the framework and that there's a new
service pack being released to fix it in three months time. Not a
pleasant outcome when you're trying to deliver applications on time to a Client
...<br>
<br>
<br>
I haven't had a chance to investigate the J2ME environment in detail but I am
aware that quite a number of developers in NZ are using it. There's a lot
of functionality in J2ME (quite a number of features omitted from the CF are
actually provided in J2ME) and it appears at first sight to be easier to
use. You do, however, need to ensure that you have an appropriate Java
Virtual Machine for the target device.<br>
<br>
Interestingly there's still a large contingent of developers in NZ who are NOT
rapidly moving away from the "unmanaged" embedded C++ environment to
the .NET CF environment. As I understand it the issue is that they're
going to have to write even more code in CF to do things that are currently
part of the Microsoft Frustration Class (MFC) plus the issue of keeping up with
changes and peculiarities in the framework.<br>
<br>
On the basis of the above I can well understand the reluctance of CodeGear to
embark down that development track, plus I think that CodeGear already has more
development environments to support than they need... To be frank,
despite its notable enhancements, Delphi 2007 still has some way to go
before it attains the stability of <st1:place w:st="on">Delphi</st1:place> 7!!!<br>
<br>
Eric<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>From: vss@vss.co.nz<br>
To: delphi@delphi.org.nz<br>
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:20:03 +1300<br>
Subject: [DUG] Rad Studio Criticism<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ececec500561419-07102007><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>HI All.</span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ececec500561419-07102007><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Well I installed
Rad Studio the other day, and was disheartened to find that there is still NO
Compact Frame Work integration !</span></font></span><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ececec500561419-07102007><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>CodeGear must
SURELY be aware of the work done by Jeremy North and that with some small
changes, or at the very least integration of Jeremys work (if he agreed of
course) into Rad Studio, especially since we can now use .Net 2.</span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ececec500561419-07102007><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>How LONG have
people been asking for this? It seems strange to me that CodeGear either 1.
dont listen, or 2. just dont see it as important, to add CF Work support.</span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ececec500561419-07102007><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jeremy</span></font></span><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
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