[DUG] Average Salary

Wed Jul 31 13:34:53 NZST 2013

Good to know that some company put efforts to teach their programmers :-)

I recalled in my 18 years professional programming career and none of the
company which I worked for offer any sorts of training. Once on the job,
just do the work. Of course that is the reason they paid me to do the job.

On 31 July 2013 12:49, David Brennan <dugdavid at dbsolutions.co.nz> wrote:

> We interview more new graduates than experienced developers (just seems to
> suit us to hire top graduates and ‘mould’ them to our way of developing) so
> our tests are purely pseudocode and don’t require any Delphi knowledge. We
> are quite happy to teach Delphi and in any case we believe that learning
> our flavour of Delphi (ie all our library functions, form hierarchy, data
> models, industry jargon, etc) is a rather larger job than learning the
> standard VCL/RTL anyway so it isn’t a big deal if people don’t know it.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> We’re fairly careful about not posting our tests anywhere because we don’t
> want them to somehow end up known by candidates (unlikely admittedly, more
> the sort of problem Google has!). They are based loosely in our field of
> expertise (ie calculating sizes and cutouts for glass structures) so for
> example the first test is to position a handle on a door given a few simple
> classes (eg THandle, TDoor, etc) and a short list of 3 or 4 rules which say
> how the handle must be positioned. Half the people who fail this appear to
> have just not read the whole question properly (despite bold warnings to
> read everything carefully), the other half can’t get their logic or
> arithmetic right.****
>
> ** **
>
> The second test is broader, it has a simple trig question, a ‘write a
> customer support email’ question (even our developers need to be able to
> communicate reasonably in English) and a couple of trickier pseudo-code
> coding problems.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> David.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:
> delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy North
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 31 July 2013 12:27 p.m.
>
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Average Salary****
>
> ** **
>
> I do a verbal (during the interview) and written test. The verbal are
> things like explain the differences between the visibility specifiers, what
> is notification used for, where is it implemented (what type). If they get
> the notification stuff (there are some other questions about it) I ask if
> they know what design pattern is used for the implementation of the
> notification system. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The written test has some short answer questions basically prodding the
> knowledge of the RTL and VCL/FireMonkey (we are using FireMonkey on a
> project atm). Then we have a larger design question where we give a
> specification and ask them to detail classes to be written to implement the
> spec. It gives us a big idea of their OO and design skills. We also ask
> thread specific questions.****
>
> ** **
>
> The written test is about an hour. (we leave for 10 mins reading and pop
> back for any questions). Test is written, no PC (although next time we
> might supply a PC).****
>
> The verbal I have about 10 questions, depending on how they answer this
> can be cut down or added to. If they can't explain the difference in
> visibility, the verbal question time is very short <g>. They are short
> answer usually (depending on the candidate trying to "wing it") so doesn't
> take long.****
>
> ** **
>
> All up, the interview would be about 1.5 hrs.****
>
> ** **
>
> I'd never ask a brain teaser or puzzle question either, in my eyes, that
> just makes you look like a tosser - leave them for the Monday morning
> meeting.****
>
> ** **
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:06 AM, David O'Brien <Dave at iccs.co.nz> wrote:**
> **
>
> Just as a matter of interest, can you give an example of one of these
> tests?****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [mailto:
> delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz] *On Behalf Of *David Brennan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 31 July 2013 11:58 a.m.****
>
>
> *To:* 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Average Salary****
>
>  ****
>
> Aye. We have what we consider to be a reasonably easy first test and we
> only interview people with at least an A- average from University and yet
> more than half still fail the test. Admittedly we are looking for 100%
> correct but the test is simple enough that this shouldn’t be too high a
> bar, the answer is less than a dozen logic and arithmetic expressions.****
>
>  ****
>
> After the first test we have a harder second test which has a few
> subtleties which we don’t expect anyone to get in a test situation, this
> provides a better gauge than the first test which is basically a boolean
> gate, pass or fail.****
>
>  ****
>
> Back to Steve’s question, you have to qualify what you mean as it depends
> on experience. A graduate developer worth hiring probably gets 45-55k in
> their first year I would say, and then goes up from there based on how they
> perform.****
>
>  ****
>
> David.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz [
> mailto:delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz<delphi-bounces at listserver.123.net.nz>]
> *On Behalf Of *Jeremy North
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 31 July 2013 11:23 a.m.
> *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
> *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Average Salary****
>
>  ****
>
> If you are looking to hire, I suggest you be prepared to pay for a good
> one. Make sure you have a good test though, my experience is that there are
> a lot of "guru", "expert", "senior" Delphi developers out there that are
> absolutely useless. Drag and drop code zombies.****
>
>  ****
>
> The last time we hired (about 15 months ago) we sifted through about 50
> (sometimes questionable) resumes and interviewed 8. Three of those walked
> out of the test at various stages (one read it and left - said we wouldn't
> like the answer he would give WTF!) and the test wasn't super hard - I
> wrote it :-) (we were looking to fill a senior level position). It isn't
> always about completing the test, but having a candidate acknowledge they
> don't know something is 400% better than them trying to talk around it and
> guess.****
>
>  ****
>
> At the end of the day, I don't consider any of the people I work with
> "average" developers. I wouldn't like to work with average people.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Steve Peacocke <steve at peacocke.net>
> wrote:****
>
> Hi Everyone,****
>
>  ****
>
> I was just wondering, what is the average salary for a permanent Delphi
> developer out there in the marketplace these days?
> ****
>
>
> Steve Peacocke
> Mobile: +64 220 612-611****
>
> Linkedin Professional Profile<http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/steve-peacocke/1/a06/489>
> ****
>
>
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>  ****
>
>
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