[DUG] Upgrade considerations

Mon Sep 21 14:31:51 NZST 2009

Hi Kyley (and others),

Thanks for your information about DB connectivity.  I also used ODAC before
and the VCLs are really good, fast and stable.  I have a Oracle project
three years ago and customer is still using it without any problem.

And you are right, if I need to do .net, it is better off with C#.  Actually
I am working on a Windows Mobile project using C#.  Things are similar on MS
Visual Studio but when I really do the coding, there are huge differences in
every aspect.  What I am worry about is the life of Prism (remember Delphi
for .net?).

I have a look at the exchange rate.  Local reseller seems to use an exchange
rate of US$1 = NZ$1.667.  The current exchange rate is about NZ$1.408.  I
really like to support local resellers but paying around 18% more is a bit
unfavourable.  I know exchange rate is floating and it is normal to have a
buffer for physical stocks.  However, we are getting electronic copies these
days.  It would be nicer if the local price can reflect the exchange rates
as recent as possible.

Cheers
Rodney  ..... :)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Upgrade considerations (Charlie)
   2. Re: A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
      (Todd Martin)
   3. Re: A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
      (Paul A Norman)
   4. Re: Upgrade considerations (Kyley Harris)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:28:13 -0400
From: "Charlie" <kerscher at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [DUG] Upgrade considerations
To: "'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'"
	<delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID: <00e501ca3a5a$ca5116e0$5ef344a0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I too Kyley, would really like to know what 3rd party tools you
use/recommend. Also when I read about the "code generator" that you
developed; my immediate thought was I wonder if he'd be willing to teach
me/others how to that for ourselves.

I'm trying my darnest to arrive at a decision that will give me the best
tools that enables me to meet the current Win32 needs of my only customer as
well as be in a position to add web functionality. I have to bear all the
expenses. The work isn't full time and the pay is not much more that I could
make by being a greeter at WalMart.

Thanks,

Charlie

Hi Kyley

I'd be interested in the 3rd party tools you're using.
I upgraded from Delphi 5 to D2007 mainly to get database connectivity, to
MySQL and SQL Server, and to progress on from the BDE / Paradox databases
I've been using.

(Which, by the way, in the small apps I've been creating , have worked very
well for some 10 years.)

I still haven't 'got it' (D2007) under production.

Being much of a 'novice' for some 15 years, the upgrade of components
between Delphi 5 and D2007 is a steep learning curve.
I'm watching the '18month upgrade cycle' and cannot necessarily justify it
version by version.. not to mention the cost of redistributing the software
with each compiler/ IDE upgrade.

I like to keep all my systems under one version..

Regards
Ian Drower

Kyley Harris wrote:

Rodney, I only ever use Pro Version. I use a reliable 3rd part tool for all
my native database connectivity. so no issues there..

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Todd Martin <todd.martin.nz at gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Rodney

> Q3 - The NZ price from Developers Inc. web page seems a bit higher when
> converted (possibly old exchange rate?).  Should I buy from US web site or
> should I contact Developer Inc. to get the updated price?  What are the
> differences?

I think you need a US credit card to purchase from the US web site.

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--
Kyley Harris
Harris Software
+64-21-671-821

  _____

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:37:41 +1200
From: Todd Martin <todd.martin.nz at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4AB6D8E5.3080507 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Malcolm

It seems to me that a sliding scale on the upgrade price would be the
most universally accepted solution. Customers who upgrade more
frequently would benefit, while those who don't are not simply discarded.

Todd.

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I?ve just read through quite a few of the messages in this thread (not
>  all, I admit) and there are a few things in here I should respond to.
>
>
>
>> Actually, afaict Embarcadero have been absolutely silent on the
>
>> matter.  The policy change has leaked out only via *some* resellers.
>
>
>
> Nothing has leaked. Official announcements are coming, but I notified
> our Asia sales staff and asked them to notify our partners and customers
> last week so we could give people as much notice as possible (also for
> another reason, see the end of this email). I posted advance notice to
> the ADUG list here in Aus, and would have posted on this list except
> Richard asked if he could post it. As our local representative in NZ, it
> made sense to me that he do it. Nothing underhand going on.
>
>
>
> Also, the reason I haven?t responded sooner is that I only check the
> lists every week or so, unless someone alerts me to something that needs
> more urgent attention.
>
>
>
> ?  I still feel cheated that at no time were those of us who bought
> Delphi 2005 which still has many unpatched major problems
>
> ?  given the opening to more reasonibly  ($) upgrade from it.
>
>
>
> I?m sorry you feel like this, but this is not accurate. Multiple times a
> year we offer discounts/bundles/third-party value-adds, etc to
> upgraders. I?ve got a partial list here and it shows that since 2006 was
> released we?ve done at least 6 such offerings in NZ, and I haven?t
> bothered going through the rest of my email archive to see if there were
> more. Now, the offers we made may not have been enough to make you
> accept, that?s a separate issue, but saying we?ve made no offers to
> previous users is plainly wrong.
>
>
>
> In terms of updates, we haven?t really changed our policy for a long
> time. Leaving aside people who pay for higher levels of support, we
> typically release update packs during the first 6-12 months of the
> product?s life (eg, 3 update packs for 2005, 2 update packs for 2006 +
> 11 hotfix packs, etc) but once a later version has come out, these
> typically slow down or stop entirely. That may not be what everybody
> wants, I appreciate that, but despite multiple attempts over the years
> it?s proven difficult if not impossible to get update packs for older
> releases on the schedule. So, despite wishing it were different, I doubt
> we?re going to be able to change that.
>
>
>
> I?ve probably missed some questions, feel free to tell me if I have, but
> let me finish on a slightly more positive note.
>
>
>
> In addition to giving people as much notice as possible, part of the
> point of letting people know about this change in advance is so that I
> could gauge the reaction.
>
>
>
> Today we treat someone who last invested in a Delphi license 14 years
> ago with Delphi 1, exactly the same as someone who invested 1 year ago
> with 2009. I firmly believe we should give people who spent money with
> us recently some benefit, especially those who spent money with us
> during the years when you couldn?t have blamed them for keeping their
> wallet in their pocket. So, while I support the spirit of this change,
> the detail of where we draw the cutoff line is still a topic I think we
> can adjust. In talking with customers and staff and watching the
> discussions on various groups around the region and I think I?ve seen
> enough to go back to our internal discussion and suggest we need to
> change our current proposal. So, your feedback is being heard, despite
> what you might believe from some of the comments.
>
>
>
> Lastly, can I just make a request for a fair go for the current
> Embarcadero team? We are well aware that we cannot ignore the ?legacy?
> of decisions made by Borland Executives over the years, and we are
> trying extremely hard to walk the line of investing to take the product
> back above the historic levels of quality and innovation you came to
> expect, and at the same time keeping it a profitable business for our
> owners. I think the local team are very open to accommodating requests
> from customers when they are brought to us (I think I?ve approved most
> of the requests for special consideration I?ve seen in recent memory)
> and hopefully some of you have experienced that. I understand that some
> of you feel like you may have beaten your heads against a brickwall at
> Borland for too long, but can I just ask that if you have an issue, you
> bring it to us and see if we can work out a solution. If we can?t keep
> you happy, of course you should criticise us, but given everything that
> seems to have changed for the better over the last 12-15 months, I?d
> appreciate it if you could give us a chance to fix the issues before
> shooting us. My contact details are at the bottom of the email, you
> should absolutely feel free to use them.
>
>
>
> I?ll try and take a more regular look at this thread for the next few
days.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Malcolm
>
> * *
>
> *Malcolm Groves
> Senior Director, Asia Pacific*
> Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
> <http://www.embarcadero.com/>
> Level 2, 100 Clarence Street, Sydney, NSW 2000
> mgroves at embarcadero.com <mailto:mgroves at codegear.com>
>
> Mobile: +61 416 264 204 | Skype: malcolmgroves
>
> USA: (510) 962 5736 | UK: 020 3289 1788
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
unsubscribe

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:57:33 +1200
From: Paul A Norman <paul.a.norman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID:
	<7a20a4ed0909201857s10774b90g9106c378e6d8370c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think that there are two very different perceptions of life and values
coming out here.

One I believe whcih is quite dark.

And the other where people do aim at better things and ways of doing things.

The choice is important.

Paul
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:58:08 +1200
From: Kyley Harris <Kyley at harrissoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [DUG] Upgrade considerations
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID:
	<6f7834060909201858h4d00ba51xcd78171a5aa2116c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I am using the native controls by DevArt.. I find the MS SQL ones are very
reliable for MS SQL 2005.. they also have ones for all the other major
databases.. the licenses are not insanely high, and you get the code too.

http://www.devart.com/sdac/
<http://www.devart.com/sdac/>As for Code Generatiing.. my code generator
revolves around an entire Architecture I've designed for my application
design.

I'd be happy to talk about it in brief, or have a coffee sometime and show
you a few things Charlie.. but teaching it would be an overwhelming task
which I don't have time for. Perhaps if I showed you how I did it, and what
I did.. you might gain some useful ideas for building your own system.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Charlie <kerscher at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>  I too Kyley, would really like to know what 3rd party tools you
> use/recommend. Also when I read about the ?code generator? that you
> developed; my immediate thought was I wonder if he?d be willing to teach
> me/others how to that for ourselves.
>
> I?m trying my darnest to arrive at a decision that will give me the best
> tools that enables me to meet the current Win32 needs of my only customer
as
> well as be in a position to add web functionality. I have to bear all the
> expenses. The work isn?t full time and the pay is not much more that I
could
> make by being a greeter at WalMart.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> Hi Kyley
>
> I'd be interested in the 3rd party tools you're using.
> I upgraded from Delphi 5 to D2007 mainly to get database connectivity, to
> MySQL and SQL Server, and to progress on from the BDE / Paradox databases
> I've been using.
>
> (Which, by the way, in the small apps I've been creating , have worked
very
> well for some 10 years.)
>
> I still haven't 'got it' (D2007) under production.
>
> Being much of a 'novice' for some 15 years, the upgrade of components
> between Delphi 5 and D2007 is a steep learning curve.
> I'm watching the '18month upgrade cycle' and cannot necessarily justify it
> version by version.. not to mention the cost of redistributing the
software
> with each compiler/ IDE upgrade.
>
> I like to keep all my systems under one version..
>
> Regards
> Ian Drower
>
>
>
>
>
> Kyley Harris wrote:
>
> Rodney, I only ever use Pro Version. I use a reliable 3rd part tool for
all
> my native database connectivity. so no issues there..
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Todd Martin <todd.martin.nz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Rodney
>
>
> > Q3 - The NZ price from Developers Inc. web page seems a bit higher when
> > converted (possibly old exchange rate?).  Should I buy from US web site
> or
> > should I contact Developer Inc. to get the updated price?  What are the
> > differences?
>
> I think you need a US credit card to purchase from the US web site.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
> unsubscribe
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kyley Harris
> Harris Software
> +64-21-671-821
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
>
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
>
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
>
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
unsubscribe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
> unsubscribe
>

--
Kyley Harris
Harris Software
+64-21-671-821
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