[DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero (Rodney)

Wed Sep 16 15:58:03 NZST 2009

-----Original Message-----
From: delphi-bounces at delphi.org.nz
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delphi-request at delphi.org.nz
Sent: Wednesday, 16 September 2009 3:18 p.m.
To: delphi at delphi.org.nz
Subject: Delphi Digest, Vol 71, Issue 30

I use Delphi since D1 and I am still using D7.  I had a project using D2007
at my client's site (using their license of course).  To be honest, I still
cannot find a strong reason to upgrade but I would like to.

Apart from the points that have been raised, there are a few things that
affect decision on upgrade:

- Instead of existing enhancement, focus on help files.  The good old help
files are really useful and help selling Delphi
- Free bundles with popular/useful VCLs
- Linux support (at least cross compilation), Mac as well?
- Prompt update on database drivers to various popular DB products

Off topic thoughts:
- The decision for using Delphi to develop future projects is hard.
Especially when we think about career development.
- It will be good if E. can have connections with universities, provide them
offers on Delphi products.  It's also hard for project manager to pick
Delphi if there is inadequate supply of developers
- Re-active/create forums, I am not sure whether we still have Team B?
- Regular publication / magazine, even only electronic form

Cheers
Rodney ..... :)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
      (Robert martin)
   2. Re: A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
      (Paul A Norman)
   3. Re: A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
      (Phil Scadden)
   4. Faxing (Jeremy Coulter)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:02:43 +1200
From: Robert martin <rob at chreos.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4AB04743.4030905 at chreos.co.nz>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:12:50 +1200
From: Paul A Norman <paul.a.norman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID:
	<7a20a4ed0909151912hbe2b8b2la7088087110489eb at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve and Kyley are right.

There was a report years ago that confirmed that but too late for Boralnd to
change direction.

If E are prepared to address the realities of what the history actually  is,
they could find a good following.

"Comparrisons of what other Software houses do and don't do are irrelevent,
and E should think about this.  We were on Delphi becasue it was different
in its approach and marketing."

They took on Delphi warts and all, they can't just close their eyes and wish
the problems away and for a nice balance sheet on the product with out
helping and healing the mess.

Leaving us ver 8/2005/6 out in the cold when we had such a bad deal does not
show any good onging  intent for others in their problems in the future.
Will E be ther efor them?

*If the important bugs are only finally fixed by buying the new product then
the effective cost of the IDE is at least doubled. Keep that in mind.*

An MS developer looking over my shoulder was horrifirfed to see how many
messages and problems the IDE has had. One couldn't beleive that
applications developed under it would be trust worthy.

I used to vigoursly promote Delphi here and overseas.

I was left feeling ashamed that I had encouraged people to spend money on
it with the lack of help systems and unresolved fixes in recent releases.
Is E going to do any better?

As someone said above, I also so far feel...  "I for one find this
thoroughly disheartening."

I am about to embark on a major project - I am now hesitant  about using
Delphi to be the back bone of it, and am now seriously contemplating looking
around to see what else is useful "out there".

Delphi provides more than an IDE - it provides a grouping of people with
professional attitudes like this forum, and previously a kind of certainity
of wheere you stood.
Comparrisons of what other Software houses do are irrelevent and E should
think about this.  We were on Delphi becasue it was different in its
approach and marketing.

It looks like the culture of Delphi is being dismembered.  Its not just
about immeadiate $ returned for E, its about sustaining the cluture/people
that makes Delphi what it is, or its just anohter IDE and no base.

Ask yourself how many of your projects would find sucess with others if they
had the checkered career that Delphi releases have had in recent years?

E have got to enhance the experience for users, and realsie that we need
dependability and backup, and are not jsut cows to be milked.

Paul
2009/9/16 Steve Peacocke <steve at peacocke.net>

> Agreed. Borland went away from its core competency to enter into a market
> it was ill prepared for. It tried to recoup some of the costs and losses
by
> upping the cost of the core developer's tool (Delphi) until it cost the
> value greater than the cost of a good second hand car.
> It's total focus away from the developer and it's huge cost of delphi
meant
> that most NZ companies went away from Delphi to another tool that offered
> more, easier and cheaper upgrades. Boreland effectively killed the
cash-cow
> through over-excessive milking.
>
> Thankfully they are looking good to recover slightly, although regaining
> the customer base they had previously is probably now out of their range.
>
> Steve Peacocke
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Kyley Harris
<Kyley at harrissoftware.com>wrote:
>
>> "Really one reason Borland went broke is that they made an IDE that could
>> be
>> used forever.."
>> No.. they went broke spending tons of money buying 3rd party tools and
>> trying to sell them for a fortune to recoup the buy cost.. at the same
time
>> they damn near abandoned the concept of putting out and supporting the
Core
>> Development tools and focused on buggy integration tools with all the
extras
>> they purchased..
>>
>> They were doing great as a company for Programmers.. Tried to become a
>> company for lifecycle development and stuffed up.
>>
>> Still.. with Delphi 2007 I've been quite happy.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Bird
<johnkbird at paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>>
>>> I think in general the upgrade policy has been quite generous, as others
>>> say
>>> other companies are much worse.
>>>
>>> Take Microsoft -  As a Vista user of 1 year I get no reduced price
>>> upgrade
>>> to Windows 7.  Vista is V6.0, Windows 7 internally is ictually Windows
>>> 6.1
>>> and could be argued is not even a new version at all - they are as
>>> similar
>>> as Windows 2000 (V5.0) and Windows XP (V5.1) were.
>>>
>>> D2007 versus 7 - have to say the D2007 use of IDE screen is a lot better
>>> for
>>> a single screen on a laptop.  And like others I have the D7 help
loaded -
>>> actually the D2007 help is not so bad, just slow at times.
>>>
>>> Really one reason Borland went broke is that they made an IDE that could
>>> be
>>> used forever..
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list
>>> Post: delphi at delphi.org.nz
>>> Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi
>>> Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-request at delphi.org.nz with Subject:
>>> unsubscribe
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kyley Harris
>> Harris Software
>> +64-21-671-821
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:39:05 +1200
From: Phil Scadden <p.scadden at gns.cri.nz>
Subject: Re: [DUG] A change in upgrade policy coming from Embarcadero
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4AB04FC9.1080802 at gns.cri.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

The big thing with Delphi was that was just about as powerful as C++ but
lot easier to use and the IDE was brilliant compared to anything else
out there when it came out. I still have VS 1998 (for Fortran) as a
comparison to "state of the art" then. Trouble is MS got Borland's man
and now VS is state of the art. And C# kicks ass for many things. Delphi
is heading into legacy for me - I can do things very quickly and have
huge code base but start another major in it? Hmm. It used to be the
numerical analysis code was in Fortran so translate to c++ or translate
to Delphi was about even. Now all that codebase is there in C++. Those
years when they decided on niche high profit instead of mass market,
concentrate on delphi may have made an irretrievable hole. I do so much
JS/Java now, that I find going back to begin..end,
interface/implimentation a bit of a chore. Sure there are some
advantages - but are they worth it?

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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:21:03 +1200
From: Jeremy Coulter <jscoulter at gmail.com>
Subject: [DUG] Faxing
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List <delphi at delphi.org.nz>
Message-ID:
	<f46133860909152021n22b5e363s73c766203a704c9a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I seem to remember hearing SOMEWHERE that someone update the now free Async
Pro faxing driver recently.
Has anyone else heard this?

Thanks, Jeremy
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